CA Minimum Wage is Bad for Workers? Inconceivable!!

[Smitty-48]

Anybody who is still running a small business model to sell me massed produced consumer products, is rightly crushed under my publically traded, government protected, giant parking lotting, big boxing corporate jackboots; die a horrible death, you fuckin' buggy whips.

Heck, my wife just ordered a bunch of dresses, she didn't even go to the store, she ordered them online, kept five, sent two back, never even left her office, made in some sweat shop in Bangledesh, shipped straight from the wharehouse, no retailer required, and she looks plenty hot in them, so good job Bangledeshees, take a five minute smoke break...

...just kidding, no smoking on the job you fuckin' wage slaves, back to work!

[apeman]

But one factor could be, more people have money to buy stuff, particularly in the local economy.

Hard to prove, but the narrative makes sense. Wal-mart employee goes to $15. One of his co-workers is laid off. Prices go up a little. Less money is vacuumed from the local economy and into the Walton family's pockets.

The remaining employees begin to eat out more, go to the movies, getting coffee before work. Yeah, prices went up a little, but they just got a 40% raise or whatever.

Now the restaurant, movie theater and coffee shop need to hire new people.

Assuming the truth of your assertion

why not make min. wage $25? Think of all the extra eating out, etc., and all the jobs it will create to service this new demand.

[PartyOf5]

I found this article to be pretty informative and not preachy.
http://mynorthwest.com/504678/seattle-m ... s-15-2017/

I had forgotten that Seattle's $125/hr. wage was being slowly phased in. 2017 will be the first time the $15 minimum is coming into play. That makes me want to wait and see what happens to the businesses now faced with the $15. Up until now the increases have been smaller increments. This is where we will finally reach the $15 and can see the full effects.

The smaller increases may account for the increased number of jobs so far, but what happens when everyone reaches $15? It would also be beneficial to know what kinds of jobs are being added. Are they full time or part time? Have full time positions given way to part time? An increase in jobs from 100 to 200 looks great unless it meant that there used to be 100 full time jobs that were split into 200 20 hour/week jobs. Then it's a wash.

I did find it interesting that the Mayor is touting "They’ve seen Fortune 500 companies locate in the City of Seattle.". Will that result in smaller, local companies going out of business?

[apeman]

The smaller increases may account for the increased number of jobs so far, but what happens when everyone reaches $15?

In Seattle, $15 might be no big deal, or it might have a material effect -- again, it is hard to measure, we cannot measure jobs that were not created, we cannot measure employees who's tasks became more difficult/stressful/etc. as a result of wage increase, and we cannot measure overall compensation packages outside of wages (i.e. employers now pay higher healthcare costs for their employees on a real basis, etc.).

If someone loses their job due to min. wage increase and does not look for a new one, that person is not counted in unemployment statistics.

This stuff is very difficult to measure, and both sides of the debate will take advantage of that fact to promote their ideology.

[SuburbanFarmer]

The smaller increases may account for the increased number of jobs so far, but what happens when everyone reaches $15?

In Seattle, $15 might be no big deal, or it might have a material effect -- again, it is hard to measure, we cannot measure jobs that were not created, we cannot measure employees who's tasks became more difficult/stressful/etc. as a result of wage increase, and we cannot measure overall compensation packages outside of wages (i.e. employers now pay higher healthcare costs for their employees on a real basis, etc.).

If someone loses their job due to min. wage increase and does not look for a new one, that person is not counted in unemployment statistics.

This stuff is very difficult to measure, and both sides of the debate will take advantage of that fact to promote their ideology.

Yes, the "Controversy" must continue. We may never know how the climate is changing, or whether the earth is 6,000 years old....

[Kazmyr]

In that case, let's /thread this bitch, then.

Grumps has it all figured out, with all the data and 100% infallible prognostications.

[SuburbanFarmer]

In that case, let's /thread this bitch, then.

Grumps has it all figured out, with all the data and 100% infallible prognostications.

Well shit, man, there's no shortage of analysis on this - even an entire field of social science called "Economics". It's not as if this is a brand-new issue that needs public debate and discourse because we have no clue how it works.
It seems that the only purpose of the MSM anymore is to sow more confusion and allow Special Interest messaging to reach the masses.

[Kazmyr]

Well shit, man, there's no shortage of analysis on this - even an entire field of social science called "Economics". It's not as if this is a brand-new issue that needs public debate and discourse because we have no clue how it works.

Oh, is that what it's called? Well, fuck me. I had no idea.

Since this issue no longer needs debate and we apparently know how it works, then what will be the outcome in this case? Put this one to bed for us.

Educate me.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Well shit, man, there's no shortage of analysis on this - even an entire field of social science called "Economics". It's not as if this is a brand-new issue that needs public debate and discourse because we have no clue how it works.

Oh, is that what it's called? Well, fuck me. I had no idea.

Since this issue no longer needs debate and we apparently know how it works, then what will be the outcome in this case? Put this one to bed for us.

Educate me.

You pay people a living wage, or the system collapses. I've said this many times now.

The CEO has no 'right' to millions of dollars by virtue of skill or tact or anything else. He's a human being that got lucky. If he deigns to pay his workers less than they can live on, eventually those workers rebel. This is why corporatocracy is doomed. Because you have zero motive for any wage increase over the barest minimum that you can get someone in the door. The mere fact that we need a 'minimum wage' is a crutch to keep the broken system going.

There is no 'marketplace' for labor, because labor is effectively infinite from a corporate standpoint. You pick the best dozen people, and leave the rest out. Those people get doors shut in their face until they join the labor surplus. No matter how much the government subsidizes schools and wage slave training, there will always be a surplus. This is because people are unable to start their own businesses. They are locked out by psychopathic piles of money that rule the economy via price fixing and corruption.

So you have millions of kids taking on trillions in debt, just to get a half-step ahead of the rest of the masses. Surprise! That's not good enough anymore. The corporates have tricked all of them into striving to be better wage slaves, for no gain. Inflation applies to job skills, too.

The end result of corporate capitalism is the same as communism - people left out in the cold, begging the government for food until they've had enough, and burn it down. So sure, keep raising the min wage, and the corps will keep raising prices, and the landlords will keep raising rents, until we make infinite dollars/hour for an infinetesimal amount of wealth. Eventually, it's going to burn. It's just a matter of how long you let it go before then.

The root problem is not the wage, it's the rank corruption that has allowed that wage to be necessary.

[Okeefenokee]

life liberty and property

he has more of a right to his millions than you do to go into a women's bathroom.