The Left Does not Reason

[jbird4049]

Pro Tip: At my local county library, there's over six hundred books covering almost every angle of the Holocaust, and from the inter-library loans, I can get a total of close to eight thousand. I assume your local library therefore has a large number of books too. So checkout some free books. And there is this thing called the interwebs?

Pro tip: when your only source is a single witness for treblinka and you use him eight thousand times, it doesn't make his ridiculous testimony any more valid.

The biggest thing about the Holocaust that is rarely discussed is the fact that a Eugenics program and that Germany was not alone with these programs. Most of the Western world had Eugenics programs, to include the US and Canada. And it all didn't end when we got inside Germany and saw how science could be used to create such horror with a Eugenics program. Canada forcibly sterilized there last Native American in the mid 1970s and didn't end their Eugenics program until the 80s. (correct me if I'm wrong on the dates)

Does anyone else go WTF ! This shit of improving the human race can be extremely dangerous.

The dates are about right. Some extra bits.

California was a big proponent, and although it did end in the early 70s, there were rumors that some of the women's prisons practiced on the sly until like the last decade.

The Germans got the ideas from the Americans, who got them from the British who got them from Francis Galton who not only proposed it, from his perverted understanding of his cousin's theory of natural selection, he coined the word in the 1880s. However he thought the best idea was to encourage via incentives like cash, to have the best families breed. He was not a proponent of forcible eugenics. He thought that a bad idea.

Yeah, some people took the idea, and went crazy. There was mission creep.

Organizations in each country fed off, and encouraged, each other. The then fashionable idea of Social Darwinism also helped. So from the 1880s to the 1940s, it went from just research, to suggesting prevent marriages, then abortions, then sterilizations, to genocide. From the "feeble' or "defective" to prison inmates, to the poor, to black then whites, then Jews, then Slavs. There were cases of poor whites being rounded up by the sheriff's department in Appalachia for "examinations", or in the South, poor blacks going to the clinic for one procedure, and then also sterilized. In such cases, they were never told. They just found out the hard way. And this did not happen in a few places, this happened from California to Mississippi, to North Carolina, to Wisconsin.

[C-Mag]

Pro tip: when your only source is a single witness for treblinka and you use him eight thousand times, it doesn't make his ridiculous testimony any more valid.

The biggest thing about the Holocaust that is rarely discussed is the fact that a Eugenics program and that Germany was not alone with these programs. Most of the Western world had Eugenics programs, to include the US and Canada. And it all didn't end when we got inside Germany and saw how science could be used to create such horror with a Eugenics program. Canada forcibly sterilized there last Native American in the mid 1970s and didn't end their Eugenics program until the 80s. (correct me if I'm wrong on the dates)

Does anyone else go WTF ! This shit of improving the human race can be extremely dangerous.

The dates are about right. Some extra bits.

California was a big proponent, and although it did end in the early 70s, there were rumors that some of the women's prisons practiced on the sly until like the last decade.

The Germans got the ideas from the Americans, who got them from the British who got them from Francis Galton who not only proposed it, from his perverted understanding of his cousin's theory of natural selection, he coined the word in the 1880s. However he thought the best idea was to encourage via incentives like cash, to have the best families breed. He was not a proponent of forcible eugenics. He thought that a bad idea.

Yeah, some people took the idea, and went crazy. There was mission creep.

Organizations in each country fed off, and encouraged, each other. The then fashionable idea of Social Darwinism also helped. So from the 1880s to the 1940s, it went from just research, to suggesting prevent marriages, then abortions, then sterilizations, to genocide. From the "feeble' or "defective" to prison inmates, to the poor, to black then whites, then Jews, then Slavs. There were cases of poor whites being rounded up by the sheriff's department in Appalachia for "examinations", or in the South, poor blacks going to the clinic for one procedure, and then also sterilized. In such cases, they were never told. They just found out the hard way. And this did not happen in a few places, this happened from California to Mississippi, to North Carolina, to Wisconsin.

+1

Think about these powers today in the hands of government.

[DrYouth]

Fuck no, he's not. Why would he do that? The powerful are going to get their hands on that thing, and the rest of us are going to become expendable play things.

That's the question isn't it?
Are we going to take responsibility for one another or are we going to allow the "dead weight" to be exploited... or merely ignored.
If people are increasingly replaced by machines in the workplace.... we will have more "dead weight"... what we do with this "excess" humanity will be a measure of the society we choose to create.

[Okeefenokee]

Concerning the concentration camps, many Jews died. But so would have our Japanese camp population if we lost the ability to feed them and the camps were overrun by disease. Hitler preferred to relocate them to begin with before the war even started. Once it got underway he couldn't have them about freely as a subversive element. His memory of WWI wouldn't permit that.

This is a valid point. I don't know if it's true, but that has happened in American history. One hundred fifty years later, and almost no one knows that the story of Wirz they learned in school was made up, and that he was railroaded to provide a scapegoat.

Henry Wirz's trial and execution created a lasting controversy. It started when it was disclosed that the star witness for the prosecution worked for the Interior Department and that he had perjured himself at the trial. He was not Felix de la Baume from France, but Felix Oeser born in the 1840s in Saxony, which was a part of the German Confederation at the time, and was actually a deserter from the 7th New York Volunteers.[28] The Washington Evening Star published on November 27, 1865 the following, "The German witness Beaume, who figured extensively in the Wirz trial, has been dismissed from the Interior Department, it having been shown that he was a deserter from the 7th New York (Steuben) regiment. His real name is Felix Oessel."

During and after the trial Wirz was reviled in the court of public opinion as The Demon of Andersonville.[31] After time passed, some writers suggested Wirz's tribunal was unfair and claimed that, "Wirz did not receive a fair trial. Nevertheless, he was found guilty and sentenced to death."[32] Even a few of his former prisoners conceded during the trial that the little support Wirz received from the Confederate government in terms of food, water and medical supplies made the conditions at Andersonville beyond his scope of responsibility. In 1980, historian Morgan D. Peoples referred to Wirz as a "scapegoat".[33] Wirz's conviction remains controversial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Wirz

When I researched this for a history paper about eight years ago, this was not on the page.

[Okeefenokee]

The absolutely lowest number of Jews who died is three million. in anything I have read, or heard of anywhere, aside from places like Stormfront. I think that a rather large number of butchered men, women, and children. Don't you?

The Nazis' plan was to exterminate almost the entire non ethically German portion of the population between Prussia and the Ural Mountains. The extermination of the Jews being the most important part. So they got the Jews, then lost the war.

3 Million is very conservative as far as anything I've read.

Gotta love that Nazi Science they had it going on

That was cutting edge world science. Even Darwin was a subscriber.

[DrYouth]

How many dead jews does it take to....

It sounds like the beginning of a very unPC joke.

What exactly are we trying to establish here.

Truth #1: There were a lot.

Truth#2: Zionists actively and deliberately exaggerated the numbers for their own political purposes.... most people bought the exaggerated numbers... because questioning them seemed abhorrent.

Anything else we need to know?

[jbird4049]

How many dead jews does it take to....

It sounds like the beginning of a very unPC joke.

What exactly are we trying to establish here.

Truth #1: There were a lot.

Truth#2: Zionists actively and deliberately exaggerated the numbers for their own political purposes.... most people bought the exaggerated numbers... because questioning them seemed abhorrent.

Anything else we need to know?

It just seems that that line devolves into a "Truth #3: The Holocaust is a lie." Which is why I try to push back.

[LVH2]

Most of your fears seem to be based on the premise won't be ambitious if they are secure. i.e. they won't contribute if they don't need to.
But there is lots of evidence that people want to contribute for reasons other than reward and punishment.
Dan Ariely does a lot of great Ted Talks on this topic.

It sounds like Randian sci fi stuff to me.

Assuming there were a reliable way of determining who is "exceptional," it would be cast aside and the basis for making such a decision would just be whoever has the most juice. That's assuming that if there is a great scarcity, everyone decides in an orderly fashion who will die, rather than Mad Max happening.

As far as productivity on a UBI, I think there is some concern. Someone pointed out earlier that most of the innovations of the past came from men of leisure.

I have seen people who use Welfare to be lay abouts first hand. (Casino business surges on check day. In California, you can use EBT at KFC). And there seem to be a lot of problems when we attempt to implement it. The people who make housing projects want them to be platforms for upward mobility, like the UBI. But they turn into frightening dumps.

The question is, does giving people money cause this? The aristocracy (past and present) are given money. Trump, Bush, Gore, Kerry, JFK, FDR, TR. I think all of them were given large sums of money for existing. But then, we also have the stereotype of the worthless rich kid, which seems to have some basis.

Maybe, in our current system, people who are already malingerers or lazy wind up on welfare, along with people with real mental health problems, crappy upbringings that leave them disoriented and clueless, low IQs, no connections, hopeless people. As observed, some might have a ceiling of working at Wal-Mart. (Where they might still be on wf) Part of what motivates people who come out of it, I'm sure, is that they know they can do more.

Maybe the worthless rich kid also has a bad upbringing. Absent, self involved, narcissistic parents. No challenges or consequences. Also, ultimately disoriented and clueless. As preposterous as that "affluenza" thing was, I understood the point.

My wife has some very rich relatives. And we had dinner with a cousin and he mentioned casually, in front of his mom, that he had cheated in all of his classes at Boston College. She didn't seem to care. He didn't seem like a happy person.

With welfare, some of the problem might be HOW it's implemented. As observed, in order to keep getting it, you have to stay poor. Recipients tend to be in concentrated areas, where bad behavior seems normal.

UBI, perhaps coupled with make work, might be a happy medium. The make work could include a lot of positive stuff. Attend classes on healthy cooking, and get all the food you need to make meals for the week. Get paid to work out, or learn meditation or a skill. Subsidize savings.

Would also need to stop manufacturing broken people via the drug war, and the general stomping on the poor with excessive fines and penalties. There would still be lay abouts, because that's just how it is.

I also wonder if people who would naturally be hard working mechanics and small business owners will function well as dependents who make extra money taking pottery classes.

There's also the fact that we'd now be dependent on the state, rather than the state being dependent on us.

[TheReal_ND]

How many dead jews does it take to....

It sounds like the beginning of a very unPC joke.

What exactly are we trying to establish here.

Truth #1: There were a lot.

Truth#2: Zionists actively and deliberately exaggerated the numbers for their own political purposes.... most people bought the exaggerated numbers... because questioning them seemed abhorrent.

Anything else we need to know?

I would add one more thing; "OMG LITERALLY HITLER! NEVER AGAIN DONT FORGET THE SIX MILLION BAJILLION!"

[Okeefenokee]

How many dead jews does it take to....

It sounds like the beginning of a very unPC joke.

What exactly are we trying to establish here.

Truth #1: There were a lot.

Truth#2: Zionists actively and deliberately exaggerated the numbers for their own political purposes.... most people bought the exaggerated numbers... because questioning them seemed abhorrent.

Anything else we need to know?

It just seems that that line devolves into a "Truth #3: The Holocaust is a lie." Which is why I try to push back.

Not for me it doesn't. 1 and 2 are fine, and don't need 3. How widespread is number 2? I've never read about the numbers being exaggerated. It's just something I assume because, why should this be the one chapter in human history that didn't get exaggerated to make the loser look worse than he was?