The Left Does not Reason

[jbird4049]

Dude. You're really fucking retarded aren't you? This is in reference to the Holocaust which is what you made an issue over. Find me one fucking thing that makes Jews the minority in the holocoaster. Pro tip: you can't.

Like dude, you don't have a fucking clue how many Jews starved to death or were outright shot. Please show me how you have all these facts.

Pro Tip: At my local county library, there's over six hundred books covering almost every angle of the Holocaust, and from the inter-library loans, I can get a total of close to eight thousand. I assume your local library therefore has a large number of books too. So checkout some free books. And there is this thing called the interwebs?

I didn't bring up the Holocaust anywhere, nor claimed that Jews were killed in lower numbers than others. That was jbird. Don't know where he gets that from. From what I remember in reading all about it. From what I understand, very roughly half the people killed in the Holocaust, were Jews. As a percentage of their own population, the Jews lost the most, with the possible exception of the Gypsies.

And most would say that Jews were the primary victims in the Nazi genocides, especially given how we don't have accurate numbers for the Jews killed in various parts of occupied Soviet Russia, where most Jews would have been rounded up, gunned down and buried in fields or forests rather than catalogued, processed and systematically killed in camps. Correct. They created a massive extermination industry, with camps the size of a building to huge ones like Auschwitz everywhere. Although the worse of them were in Poland. Add in the upteen killing fields all over Eastern Europe...they kept a lot of records, but the sheer scale of it alone makes it hard.

I thought the more imporant part of jbird's post was the part about the Nazis not just killing Jews... which probably does add up to about 11 million or so deliberate killings of civilians, including own citizens, and I thought that was the part you primarily referred to.

I was trying to add some details. Although it might not have directly related to the original post. And why does it really matter, if we cannot get very exact numbers? Even a very light examination shows it is impossible. And reading the Nasis' writing makes it very clear that they wanted to kill all the Jews of Europe, and they almost did.

[TheReal_ND]

Nothing wrong with trying to enhance favorable genetics. Could solve a lot of problems. Gee... I wonder why we quit doing that. Hmm I wonder...

Nothing wrong with it as long as you use the best available science

Valid

[TheReal_ND]

Pro Tip: At my local county library, there's over six hundred books covering almost every angle of the Holocaust, and from the inter-library loans, I can get a total of close to eight thousand. I assume your local library therefore has a large number of books too. So checkout some free books. And there is this thing called the interwebs?

Pro tip: when your only source is a single witness for treblinka and you use him eight thousand times, it doesn't make his ridiculous testimony any more valid.

[jbird4049]

I, and others, have already said this is an issue we will have to confront. I wrote my last thesis on this very topic. It is inevitable. Something will have to be done. A paradigm change is coming.

Who knows what the solution is? We are talking about a Fermi window. The answer is not likely to be something that our minds are conditioned to accept.

The easy path that is posited is that we will all get free money. I strongly oppose that course. That will never work. Old work is dying. New ideas about work will need to be considered.

Ancient groups, that existed along egalitarian lines, were rendered obsolete upon the emergence of complex societies.

We could very well be on the cusp of a new era, that like those of the past, rendered old ideas obsolete.

Individual value hasn't been a defining value for some time. People have been able to get along while being not all that valuable. That might be drawing to a close.

It's a common trope of sci-fi that that the starfarers do all the intrepid work, and the commoners are simply dragged along. That might not be the reality we face.

We might face a future where only the exceptional are carried along. Why carry the dead weight in a world where economic considerations are irrelevant? If robots and computers do everything, why do we need dumb consumers? Silicon and microchips carry the economy. What use are consumers in a galactic experience?

Interesting post Okee...
Scary worldview... only the exceptional are carried along.
But this is a scarcity model... and there aren't that many reasons to believe we are entering a scarcity age.

Most of your fears seem to be based on the premise won't be ambitious if they are secure. i.e. they won't contribute if they don't need to.
But there is lots of evidence that people want to contribute for reasons other than reward and punishment.
Dan Ariely does a lot of great Ted Talks on this thttps://www.martinhash.com/forums/viewtopic.php ... rt=440opic.

It is hard to contribute when you do not have access to a good education, or the jobs either don't exist, or pay starvation wages. Also if this happens for a few generations, basic job skills, and the confidence needed is gone, and has to be required. Our country has created the very class of people that many despise.

[C-Mag]

Pro Tip: At my local county library, there's over six hundred books covering almost every angle of the Holocaust, and from the inter-library loans, I can get a total of close to eight thousand. I assume your local library therefore has a large number of books too. So checkout some free books. And there is this thing called the interwebs?

Pro tip: when your only source is a single witness for treblinka and you use him eight thousand times, it doesn't make his ridiculous testimony any more valid.

The biggest thing about the Holocaust that is rarely discussed is the fact that a Eugenics program and that Germany was not alone with these programs. Most of the Western world had Eugenics programs, to include the US and Canada. And it all didn't end when we got inside Germany and saw how science could be used to create such horror with a Eugenics program. Canada forcibly sterilized there last Native American in the mid 1970s and didn't end their Eugenics program until the 80s. (correct me if I'm wrong on the dates)

Does anyone else go WTF ! This shit of improving the human race can be extremely dangerous.

[jbird4049]

Pro Tip: At my local county library, there's over six hundred books covering almost every angle of the Holocaust, and from the inter-library loans, I can get a total of close to eight thousand. I assume your local library therefore has a large number of books too. So checkout some free books. And there is this thing called the interwebs?

Pro tip: when your only source is a single witness for treblinka and you use him eight thousand times, it doesn't make his ridiculous testimony any more valid.

Good lord, man, we are talking about the Holocaust. An event that happened over the whole of Europe from France to Greece to the Ukraine, not one extermination camp.

[TheReal_ND]

Pro Tip: At my local county library, there's over six hundred books covering almost every angle of the Holocaust, and from the inter-library loans, I can get a total of close to eight thousand. I assume your local library therefore has a large number of books too. So checkout some free books. And there is this thing called the interwebs?

Pro tip: when your only source is a single witness for treblinka and you use him eight thousand times, it doesn't make his ridiculous testimony any more valid.

Good lord, man, we are talking about the Holocaust. An event that happened over the whole of Europe from France to Greece to the Ukraine, not one extermination camp.

Well my man, if I find a few liars I'm forced to question the entire pack of liars.

Does anyone else go WTF ! This shit of improving the human race can be extremely dangerous.

You can't have your welfare state both ways.

[Okeefenokee]

You can only have efficient government if you're alike? If that were true, your military would not function as well as it does.

You see a lot of Ws on the board lately?

[Okeefenokee]

You have no comprehension of how our military works. Combat is usually white majority with some blacks.

That's funny. Ten years ago I left a gym bag at my grandma's house. This morning I dumped it on the couch for the first time since then. It's my stuff from graduating OSUT. I picked up the platoon picture that I hadn't seen in ten years.

My wife says, "Where are all the black people?" Which was rhetorical.

[Okeefenokee]

I, and others, have already said this is an issue we will have to confront. I wrote my last thesis on this very topic. It is inevitable. Something will have to be done. A paradigm change is coming.

Who knows what the solution is? We are talking about a Fermi window. The answer is not likely to be something that our minds are conditioned to accept.

The easy path that is posited is that we will all get free money. I strongly oppose that course. That will never work. Old work is dying. New ideas about work will need to be considered.

Ancient groups, that existed along egalitarian lines, were rendered obsolete upon the emergence of complex societies.

We could very well be on the cusp of a new era, that like those of the past, rendered old ideas obsolete.

Individual value hasn't been a defining value for some time. People have been able to get along while being not all that valuable. That might be drawing to a close.

It's a common trope of sci-fi that that the starfarers do all the intrepid work, and the commoners are simply dragged along. That might not be the reality we face.

We might face a future where only the exceptional are carried along. Why carry the dead weight in a world where economic considerations are irrelevant? If robots and computers do everything, why do we need dumb consumers? Silicon and microchips carry the economy. What use are consumers in a galactic experience?

Interesting post Okee...
Scary worldview... only the exceptional are carried along.

It's not something I'm proposing, I'm just not seeing sunshine and rainbows when I think about it. There's a step that gets skipped when we go from now, to the future where we all have all we need. The missing step is how do people get the thing that provides all we need. Right now we don't have that thing, so we have to work. When the thing comes along that provides all we need, and we can quit our jobs as soon as we get one, what's the process people think is going to happen through which those things are doled out?

Is the person who invents the most valuable thing in human history going to give it away to everyone, so we can all live in an egalitarian paradise?

Fuck no, he's not. Why would he do that? The powerful are going to get their hands on that thing, and the rest of us are going to become expendable play things.

Think about coffee. They had coffee for centuries, and they kept it to themselves. People risked their lives, and often lost them, trying to steal a coffee plant cutting, and what did they do with it? Share it with everyone else? Nope. They presented it to their king, who kept it for himself. Coffee. They wouldn't share coffee with us, but they're gonna let us all have the one thing that will render them virtually obsolete.

I think it's nonsense.