Meanwhile in Iraq & Syria

[kybkh]

I'd rather side with actual facts, which right now are pretty much nil.

Please, you can't even side with your own made up facts.


If we're waiting for you to have a come-to-Jesus meeting with facts we may as well end it now.


Me, waiting for StA to side with facts. Any facts.
Even his imaginary ones.

The reason for my doubt about Assad using Sarin is that it doesn't make any strategic sense at all.

[TheOneX]

It's fucking bizarre that the people who are so convinced Assad did this -- with no evidence -- are the ones telling people that they operate without facts, who tell them other possibilities are just as likely (or more so).

Dude, I have no idea who did it. I am pointing out that it makes no rational sense for the Assad regime to do this. They gave up those munitions. And it has been the rebels who for years have been launching chemical weapons against people.

It seems a lot more likely to me that a Syrian or Russian aircraft hit an ammunition dump that happened to store chlorine gas (or even sarin) without knowing those munitions were stored there. It's certainly more likely than the possibility that Assad, now winning the civil war, would choose to throw it all away by launching an ineffective chemical weapon at people for no strategic or political gain whatsoever.

Until I see substantive evidence of who is right and who is wrong, I don't support this stupid bullshit. This is what created the Syrian conflict in the first place.

And I find it risible that some of you are now pounding the drums of war over a chemical weapons attack you believe was made by Assad while the people who were allegedly attacked with chemical weapons have themselves been launching chemical weapons attacks for years with no response from you.

No, I'm forming my opinion based on facts. I do not have an opinion on whether or not Assad did it, I do not have enough information to form such an opinion. All I know is Trump acted according to the information he was given, and I cannot fault him for making a decision based on the information he has. While our intelligence community isn't perfect, they are without a doubt the best in the world at what they do. The odds their intelligence is wrong is quite small. So Trump rightfully should trust them. As I do not have access to the same information they do, I can only form an opinion on if such an attack is a waste of tax payer money or not.

[DBTrek]

The reason for my doubt about Assad using Sarin is that it doesn't make any strategic sense at all.

Fair enough.

I actually dropped into the forums under the misguided hope that Smitty had something intelligent to say about the strike.
Love that guy's military analysis when he's on point, but today is not the day, eh?

I'm completely agnostic on who owns the gas, who used the gas, blah, blah ,blah because in the real world none of that matters. We are where we are, and whether the gas-attack blame debate is ever settled is largely irrelevant to everything that happens now going forward.

[BjornP]

Oh, please.

Get out of here with that. The videos we have seen show people stabbing a baby with a needle but not actually injecting anything. We have seen people hosing down alleged sarin gas victims with a fire hose. None of the responders were in mop gear. No atropine injectors in sight.

You're assuming a video was fake because responders didn't wear proper gear? And you assume that responders in that rebel controlled zone would have the proper gear for administering treatment....why?

The reason for my doubt about Assad using Sarin is that it doesn't make any strategic sense at all.

As has been explained already, it doesn't have make any military strategic sense. It makes perfect sense as a strategy from a government-civilian population relations perspective. State terror worked wonders for the Assyrians, for Vlad Tepes and for Saddam Hussein. Use the bombs to kill enemy fighters, use gas to kill their civilian supporters. Word spread, "resistence is futule" = Population pacified.

[Martin Hash]

"When something doesn't make sense, it's probably nonsense." - me

[Speaker to Animals]

Oh, please.

Get out of here with that. The videos we have seen show people stabbing a baby with a needle but not actually injecting anything. We have seen people hosing down alleged sarin gas victims with a fire hose. None of the responders were in mop gear. No atropine injectors in sight.

You're assuming a video was fake because responders didn't wear proper gear? And you assume that responders in that rebel controlled zone would have the proper gear for administering treatment....why?

The reason for my doubt about Assad using Sarin is that it doesn't make any strategic sense at all.

As has been explained already, it doesn't have make any military strategic sense. It makes perfect sense as a strategy from a government-civilian population relations perspective. State terror worked wonders for the Assyrians, for Vlad Tepes and for Saddam Hussein. Use the bombs to kill enemy fighters, use gas to kill their civilian supporters. Word spread, "resistence is futule" = Population pacified.

No. I amsaying.. if it were sarin, the responders in that video would also be dead. It's more likey chlorine, assuming that video is credible at all.

And chlorine exposure would support the Russian claim that they hit a rebel ammunition dump containing chlorine. The rebels, after all, have been using chlorine as a chemical weapon for years now.

That's just taking the video and photos at face value. I have no idea when that footage was taken, the circumstances, or really anything about it. People are throwing some youtube videos in my face and acting surprised I don't believe the IC.

Get real.

And the responders in that photo were an NGO. They have funding for mop gear. They also have a storied history of making shit up.

[BjornP]

"When something doesn't make sense, it's probably nonsense." - me

"Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones." - Donald Rumsfeld.

[C-Mag]

It's good to see old members posting. DBtrek, Kath, Smitty, Bjorn, etc.

If I had known that all we needed to do was to get Trump to bomb someone and all my old friends from DCF would should up again I would have pushed for it sooner

[K@th]

It's good to see old members posting. DBtrek, Kath, Smitty, Bjorn, etc.

If I had known that all we needed to do was to get Trump to bomb someone and all my old friends from DCF would should up again I would have pushed for it sooner

It was this president finally doing something resembling presidential. If he's going to be commander in chief instead of toddler in chief, I'll get behind him when he's doing things right. I always said I would. Nothing has changed.

[DBTrek]

No. I amsaying.. if it were sarin, the responders in that video would also be dead. It's more likey chlorine, assuming that video is credible at all.

Nah.
Chlorine gas is "potentially fatal" in high concentrations. . . and blowing up a stockpile in the wide open of a Northern Syrian village is a lousy way to achieve "high concentrations".

In its natural form, chlorine is a yellow-green gas that is potentially fatal in high concentrations. In lower density, it can damage the lungs and cause choking as well as vomiting, nausea, dizziness and unconsciousness.

It is less lethal than some other chemical weapons such as Sarin or mustard gas, but it is also far easier to obtain because it has many legitimate industrial uses, including for sanitizing drinking water.

U.S. military officials say they have been unable to "independently verify" that Islamic State militants in Iraq are using chlorine, but they are aware of the reports.

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/mili ... /24914087/

Chlorine gas is pretty damn weak on the scale of "weaponized gases".
More harmful than deadly.
Extremely unlikely to produce the casualties we see in Northern Syria.