Europe, Boring Until it's Not

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Montegriffo
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Re: Europe, Boring Until it's Not

Post by Montegriffo » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:52 am

Hastur wrote:
Montegriffo wrote:
Hastur wrote: Do you have any idea what you are talking about or are you under some kind of spell? Just defending every indefensible little SJW hill no matter what. Equating teaching a dog a funny trick with armed robbery. Unfuckingbelievable.
Do you know what you are talking about or do you knee jerk every time the right wing press tells you to.
Imagine your grandparents died in Auchwitz then tell me how funny "do you want to gas the Jews" is.

Do you want to lynch the niggers Fido?
Do you want to kill all the Catholic pedophiles Rex?
Do you want to mow down all the infidels Rover?
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT NOT TO BE OFFENDED.

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Actually I do under British law
I have the right to not be a victim of a hate crime.
If this guy wanted to make a joke for his girlfriend why did he post it on YouTube and leave it up till it had 3 million views? He could just demonstrate it live to her in the privacy of his own home.
The court decided there was more to it than a little joke for his girlfriend.

Sentencing is next month and he will likely get a fine or community service.
He's not going to jail for this so everyone can stop overreacting like this is a police state where you can't tell a joke anymore.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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BjornP
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Re: Europe, Boring Until it's Not

Post by BjornP » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:04 am

Montegriffo wrote:Saying I was only joking after getting caught is not a valid defence.
"Sure I pulled a knife on the old lady and said give me all your money.....but I was only joking.
Wether you find him funny or not, it is evident to anyone but the most autistic that he was making a joke. Yes, a racist joke, but still a joke. Telling a joke about gassing Jews is not comparable to pulling a knife on an old lady. If you do that as a joke, you should get arrested, because you're still pulling a knife on another person, and such a joke needlessly endangers yourself and could lead to people calling the cops on you (wasting community ressources) just because you have a poor sense of humor. Someone guffawing about baking Jew pies or what have you... if you have a problem with them saying that, you REPLY, you use your OWN speech, YOUR truth, YOUR humor to challenge theirs. A joke in bad taste is not an assault with a deadly weapon, no one's life or safety's in danger from bad humor.
Do you know what you are talking about or do you knee jerk every time the right wing press tells you to.
Imagine your grandparents died in Auchwitz then tell me how funny "do you want to gas the Jews" is.

Do you want to lynch the niggers Fido?
Do you want to kill all the Catholic pedophiles Rex?
Do you want to mow down all the infidels Rover?
While Hastur is technically right-wing, I'd advise to look up who the Swedish "Moderate Party" is, who as I recall, are who Hastur votes for. I, otoh, vote Social Democrat (and sometimes Socialist People's Party in local elections). The only newspaper I actually subscribe to is a Danish left-wing social democratic one. And I consider what you're defending as inherent submissiveness to a totalitarian way of thinking. Anything that disrupts "stability", is a "threat". How very Chinese of you. You remind me of another Dane that used to frequent the DCF. He defended censoring a mural of the Tianamen square massacre painted in the US, I believe, because it could potentially upset some visiting Chinese dignitaries.

My grandfather's cousin was executed by the Gestapo. Does that mean I should defend laws that make jokes about the Gestapo illegal? What the fuck kind of planet are you living on, Monte? I don't give a shit if you make jokes about that. I'd care if you actually WERE a Nazi, and if Nazis were realistically about to or had taken power. Then I'd STILL not give a shit about jokes. I'd give a shit about you wielding POWER to carry out your beliefs. Not about what you fucking say.

Have you absolutely NO trust in your fellow Brits, at all? No trust in society being able to police itself? Do you think social taboos are things created by the State? Do you think there'd be no morality, no values, no notion of right and wrong, no idea of what's polite and what's impolite if the Statedidn't write a law telling you all these things?

Do you accept the notion that non-religious people can be moral? I assume you do. Is that only because some OTHER extra-personal authority has decreed to them what their morality should be, then? No? Then MAYBE, just maybe, it is possible to create, nuture, and thrive in a society where just as the idiot in the video is free to make jokes about Jews, everyone else in his country is free to reply to him that he's a total dick. Free to tell him he's no longer welcome in their homes, free to inflict any social, societal and individual condemnation on him they wish.
Fame is not flattery. Respect is not agreement.

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BjornP
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Re: Europe, Boring Until it's Not

Post by BjornP » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:08 am

Montegriffo wrote:
Hastur wrote: YOU HAVE NO RIGHT NOT TO BE OFFENDED.
Actually I do under British law
I have the right to not be a victim of a hate crime.
If this guy wanted to make a joke for his girlfriend why did he post it on YouTube and leave it up till it had 3 million views? He could just demonstrate it live to her in the privacy of his own home.
The court decided there was more to it than a little joke for his girlfriend.

Sentencing is next month and he will likely get a fine or community service.
He's not going to jail for this so everyone can stop overreacting like this is a police state where you can't tell a joke anymore.
I gather you must love Russia's "gay propaganda" law. In Russia homosexuals aren't allowed to speak publicly about being homosexual, nor are any (positive) depictions of homosexuals allowed. Gayness is very offensive to Russians, you see.
Fame is not flattery. Respect is not agreement.

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Hastur
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Re: Europe, Boring Until it's Not

Post by Hastur » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:19 am

BjornP wrote:
Montegriffo wrote:
Hastur wrote: YOU HAVE NO RIGHT NOT TO BE OFFENDED.
Actually I do under British law
I have the right to not be a victim of a hate crime.
If this guy wanted to make a joke for his girlfriend why did he post it on YouTube and leave it up till it had 3 million views? He could just demonstrate it live to her in the privacy of his own home.
The court decided there was more to it than a little joke for his girlfriend.

Sentencing is next month and he will likely get a fine or community service.
He's not going to jail for this so everyone can stop overreacting like this is a police state where you can't tell a joke anymore.
I gather you must love Russia's "gay propaganda" law. In Russia homosexuals aren't allowed to speak publicly about being homosexual, nor are any (positive) depictions of homosexuals allowed. Gayness is very offensive to Russians, you see.
I assume Monte thinks that the Danish cartoonists, Swedish artists and French satire magazines all should have been prosecuted. He must have cheered when they were attacked. I'm glad I'm not living in Brittain. I guess YouTubers like PewDiePie have to move somewhere else now.

How did it get this far? I'm still flabbergasted.

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Nie lügen die Menschen so viel wie nach einer Jagd, während eines Krieges oder vor Wahlen. - Otto von Bismarck

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BjornP
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Re: Europe, Boring Until it's Not

Post by BjornP » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:49 am

Hastur wrote:
I assume Monte thinks that the Danish cartoonists, Swedish artists and French satire magazines all should have been prosecuted. He must have cheered when they were attacked. I'm glad I'm not living in Brittain. I guess YouTubers like PewDiePie have to move somewhere else now.

How did it get this far? I'm still flabbergasted.

I've noticed a commonality between the banking world, the rise of dictatorships in the world, the federalization of the EU, neo-liberalism, SJW'ism, as well as the rise of populism: A shift in how far-reaching one interprets stability these days. Freedom is inherently destabilizing because freedom is about choices. The more choice, the more opportunities you have, the freer you are. These people still pay lip-service to the idea of freedom and liberty, but only when it's freedom for themselves. Everyone else's freedom is a threat. A threat to one's economic security ("wallet rights"), a threat to one's delicate emotional well-being, one's social status, or a threat to one's vague and abstract ideals for a utopian and "enlightened" future.

When society breaks down, who is the only other relationship an individual can relate to, can trust to safeguard his interests and security? The State. The less you can rely on society, and the less you feel you owe society anything and vice versa, the more you have to rely on the State. Without a society, you are alone against the State... in a system that does not need you. The desire for the State to regulate more and more aspects of what society, what local communities, could regulate socially amongst themselves in the past, is a sign that more and more individuals feel disconnected from society. That they don't feel part of anything. That they are alone.
Fame is not flattery. Respect is not agreement.

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ssu
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Re: Europe, Boring Until it's Not

Post by ssu » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:17 am

BjornP wrote:When society breaks down, who is the only other relationship an individual can relate to, can trust to safeguard his interests and security? The State.
Many Americans don't think so. They relate to and trust to safeguard their interests to Mr Colt, Mr Browning, Mr Remington and Misters Smith & Wesson etc.

(Even if Mr Remington filed for bankruptcy short time ago, actually)

And it's quite normal that if the security system of a state collapses, then concerned citizens fill in the gap.

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C-Mag
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Re: Europe, Boring Until it's Not

Post by C-Mag » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:30 am

ssu wrote:
BjornP wrote:When society breaks down, who is the only other relationship an individual can relate to, can trust to safeguard his interests and security? The State.
Many Americans don't think so. They relate to and trust to safeguard their interests to Mr Colt, Mr Browning, Mr Remington and Misters Smith & Wesson etc.

(Even if Mr Remington filed for bankruptcy short time ago, actually)

And it's quite normal that if the security system of a state collapses, then concerned citizens fill in the gap.
Those gentlemen are far more reliable for personal security than the Government ;)


Yeah, Americans are not the normal humans on the planet in this regard. We went to war over preserving our personal access to weapons.
PLATA O PLOMO


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Otern
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Re: Europe, Boring Until it's Not

Post by Otern » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:43 am

Montegriffo wrote:Saying I was only joking after getting caught is not a valid defence.
"Sure I pulled a knife on the old lady and said give me all your money.....but I was only joking.
Watch the video. In it's he's saying he's teaching the dog this because it's the least cutest thing he can think of. And end it with saying he's not a nazi, and just doing it for laughs.

There's absolutely no way that video can be misconstrued as "hate speech", even for people that support these kinds of laws. Sending this guy in jail for this, sets a precedent to send people like John Cleese in jail, or just about anyone that has made nazi jokes. Pretty sure anyone on this forum could be sent to jail, when this guy gets it. You included.

Hell, Prince Harry dressed as a nazi at a party once, do he get to go to jail too?

Noone was actually offended, but the police just found a tattooed up guy and thought "hey, I hate his smug face, let's ruin him".

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Montegriffo
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Re: Europe, Boring Until it's Not

Post by Montegriffo » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:49 am

BjornP wrote:
Montegriffo wrote:
Hastur wrote: YOU HAVE NO RIGHT NOT TO BE OFFENDED.
Actually I do under British law
I have the right to not be a victim of a hate crime.
If this guy wanted to make a joke for his girlfriend why did he post it on YouTube and leave it up till it had 3 million views? He could just demonstrate it live to her in the privacy of his own home.
The court decided there was more to it than a little joke for his girlfriend.

Sentencing is next month and he will likely get a fine or community service.
He's not going to jail for this so everyone can stop overreacting like this is a police state where you can't tell a joke anymore.
I gather you must love Russia's "gay propaganda" law. In Russia homosexuals aren't allowed to speak publicly about being homosexual, nor are any (positive) depictions of homosexuals allowed. Gayness is very offensive to Russians, you see.
If this was a Muslim cleric making jokes about blowing up children at a pop concert would it be ok?
No country in the world lets its citizens have completely free speech without risk of prosecution.
Is masking racism in humour somehow no longer racism?
So long as the penalty is proportional I have no problem with prosecuting hate speech whether the accused pretends it is a joke or not.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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Hastur
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Re: Europe, Boring Until it's Not

Post by Hastur » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:50 am

Two dogs and their owners. Both trained to do the Nazi salute. One was investigated for insulting the Fuhrer in 1941 the other one for offending
random internet users in 2017. Guess who was convicted?

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https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Jackie_%28dog%29
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An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur? - Axel Oxenstierna

Nie lügen die Menschen so viel wie nach einer Jagd, während eines Krieges oder vor Wahlen. - Otto von Bismarck