Economics: PayDay Loans- Bastards or Black Sheep?

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

But to pretend like people in dire straits should be tearfully grateful to their payday lender, or to go into orgasmic paroxysms over the triumph of markets because payday lenders exist, seems a little, as the kids would say, extra.

Tearfully grateful? Lol.

Nobody is forced to use them. Once the couch diving for change plan no longer works, and you've got no friends nor family who will loan you a few bucks, there are two choices. Payday loan or suffer through it.

Why take away the option? If paying the higher rates means the difference between eating or not, or homeless or not, or heating or not.... I know I chose eating a few times. I lived through it; even learned from it.

Nobody is taking the option away. They are defining usury, and demanding lenders conform to those laws. Exactly what separates a legal, short term, high risk lender from a mobster.

[Speaker to Animals]

Are we going to pretend like there is no such thing as usury?

Are you going to pretend like not all interest charging is usury and essentially stealing?

[SuburbanFarmer]

Are we going to pretend like there is no such thing as usury?

Define it. 10% interest? 25%?

[Fife]

Poor bastard blew his brains out because he was depressed, hungry, and the cops were after him for child support . . . but he went out free of usurious abuse, by golly! Yep, we saved another one, fam.

:goteam: :drunk:

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

But to pretend like people in dire straits should be tearfully grateful to their payday lender, or to go into orgasmic paroxysms over the triumph of markets because payday lenders exist, seems a little, as the kids would say, extra.

I’m not asking folks to praise, celebrate, or even like payday lenders. I’m just asking them to understand how and why the system works as it does before they decide to deprive their neighbors of an economic tool.

The system seems to work best when the rules about what counts as a valid contract, and what considerations might invalidate that contract are well understood.

For instance, for a contract to be valid, there can't be a power imbalance so excessive that one party can compel the other into entering said contract.

I don't know exactly where the line sits, but I assume it is somewhere between forcing someone at gunpoint to sign a contract, and two completely equal partners in a business agreement. Fortunately, we have this terrible democratic political process to arrive at conclusions about these things.

/shrug

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Are we going to pretend like there is no such thing as usury?

Define it. 10% interest? 25%?

It isn't a percentage, it is usury when it is illegal. We have a democratic process to define what is legal.

Vote on it bro, and we will find out.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Are we going to pretend like there is no such thing as usury?

Define it. 10% interest? 25%?

It isn't a percentage, it is usury when it is illegal. We have a democratic process to define what is legal.

Vote on it bro, and we will find out.

Then everything is great now, because people voted for other people who decided that payday lending is evil.

Why are we discussing this then?

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Are we going to pretend like there is no such thing as usury?

Are you going to pretend like not all interest charging is usury and essentially stealing?

My mom raised me as a good Christian, so when I lend friends and family money, I don't charge them interest.

I don't expect the whole world to conform to the incredibly high moral standards I set by being a living saint, striding the earth above you sinners.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Define it. 10% interest? 25%?

It isn't a percentage, it is usury when it is illegal. We have a democratic process to define what is legal.

Vote on it bro, and we will find out.

Then everything is great now, because people voted for other people who decided that payday lending is evil.

Why are we discussing this then?

Yeah, democracy sucks, just ask Fife and DB.

If only a benevolent emperor would just make these decisions for us, benighted, stupid citizens.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Poor bastard blew his brains out because he was depressed, hungry, and the cops were after him for child support . . . but he went out free of usurious abuse, by golly! Yep, we saved another one, fam.

:goteam: :drunk:

This guy was suicidal, hungry, and hunted. Good thing he could get 300 bucks at 40% interest. Saved his damn life!

Oh man, totally bullshitting is a good way to make a point.