Catalan Independence

[katarn]

Going to Brussels is the safe way for the president as an individual, but it hurts the Catalan independence movement immensely.

Not sure about that. He has a better chance of getting his views out to tha Catalan people if he's not locked up.

If he truly had the support of his people, he could stay in Catalonia, either by hiding, or protected by armed Catalans.

Or he could go to a Spanish prison, and turn into a political prisoner/sort of martyr in Spain, which would help the Catalan independence movement.

There are situations where a government in exile makes sense, but this is not one of them. It will just hurt Catalonia.

I agree that Brussels might not be a great move, but it is reasonable. Opting for political martyrdom might just as easily destroy the movement as strengthen it.

[Otern]

I agree that Brussels might not be a great move, but it is reasonable. Opting for political martyrdom might just as easily destroy the movement as strengthen it.

Imagine the awful situation the Spanish authorities would be in if they managed to arrest him. Can't really lock him up authoritarian-style and stop him from communicating with the world.

[BjornP]

How much of these separatist movements are a legacy of WW2? There were a bunch of partisan groups that coalesced when Europe was in disarray, and while the governments of Europe were pretty good at disbanding them, much of that sentiment seems to have carried over from the war. At least, that's my opinion. The Irish had grievances well before that conflict of course, but I'm not sure about these other groups.

They aren’t. Some only got renewed attention in the post war years as race-based forced sterilisation and forced adoptions slowly became seen as morally wrong. Naturally lead to some ethnic anger and resentment, but it seems to be mostly forgiven. Of all the Scandinavian countries, it's really only Denmark that's currently on (slow) trajectory of losing Greenland. Greenland has more autonomy from Denmark than Catalonia has from Spain, though, so they're in no hurry.

[heydaralon]

How much of these separatist movements are a legacy of WW2? There were a bunch of partisan groups that coalesced when Europe was in disarray, and while the governments of Europe were pretty good at disbanding them, much of that sentiment seems to have carried over from the war. At least, that's my opinion. The Irish had grievances well before that conflict of course, but I'm not sure about these other groups.

They aren’t. Some only got renewed attention in the post war years as race-based forced sterilisation and forced adoptions slowly became seen as morally wrong. Naturally lead to some ethnic anger and resentment, but it seems to be mostly forgiven. Of all the Scandinavian countries, it's really only Denmark that's currently on (slow) trajectory of losing Greenland. Greenland has more autonomy from Denmark than Catalonia has from Spain, though, so they're in no hurry.

So these movements existed before WW2? Did not know that! I have a very limited knowledge of the continent, it just seems like after the second world war, nationalist movements sprung up all over the world.

[BjornP]

So these movements existed before WW2? Did not know that! I have a very limited knowledge of the continent, it just seems like after the second world war, nationalist movements sprung up all over the world.

I think what you're thinking of in terms of post-war separatism, are the various uprisings against European colonial rule, that the British and French had to contend with. There is absolutely a causal relationship there between WW2 and separatism in that case, but it doesn't really apply to Scandinavia. By 1945, only Denmark even owned any colonies. And that was just one, Greenland. Separatism is easier to handle if you just have to deal with one or two non-violent desires for more autonomy.

The major European colonial powers, otoh, had to deal with multiple, violent seperatist movements spread out over several continents all emerging soon after a major war, that had hugely expensive in money and manpower.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I'll be damned... Catalonian pres trolled Madrid into making him a martyr. This thing might actually work...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-0 ... puigdemont

The Spanish public prosecutor on Thursday ordered the country's High Court that the Catalonian secessionist leaders be jailed. An arrest warrant be issued for ousted Catalan president Carles Puigdemont and eight members of his former government.

Investigative magistrate Carmen Lamela issued the ruling on Thursday at the request of prosecutors who are pursuing a criminal case stemming from the declaration of secession the Parliament of Catalonia made Friday.
The prosecutor also asked the judge to issue a European arrest warrant for former leader Carles Puigdemont

Even for a modern government, Spain seems especially inept... Pretty amazing to watch.

[TheReal_ND]

Spain has seemed inept to me at governing for quite some time. I learned about some of their more ridiculous laws about photographing police officers years ago. That said, i side with Spain on this unconstitutional "Catalonian Referendum." I think they should be allowed to flex their muscles to the EU because the EU does not rule Spain. I doubt it's going to have the desired effect though. Personally, I believe the best course of action would to be to ignore these retarded Catalonian liberals.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Spain has seemed inept to me at governing for quite some time. I learned about some of their more ridiculous laws about photographing police officers years ago. That said, i side with Spain on this unconstitutional "Catalonian Referendum." I think they should be allowed to flex their muscles to the EU because the EU does not rule Spain. I doubt it's going to have the desired effect though. Personally, I believe the best course of action would to be to ignore these retarded Catalonian liberals.

It would have been the smart play, yes. Instead, they’ve sent in the jackboots every time. Civil war is coming.

[Okeefenokee]

Spain has seemed inept to me at governing for quite some time. I learned about some of their more ridiculous laws about photographing police officers years ago. That said, i side with Spain on this unconstitutional "Catalonian Referendum." I think they should be allowed to flex their muscles to the EU because the EU does not rule Spain. I doubt it's going to have the desired effect though. Personally, I believe the best course of action would to be to ignore these retarded Catalonian liberals.

It would have been the smart play, yes. Instead, they’ve sent in the jackboots every time. Civil war is coming.

Do they even have guns?

[SuburbanFarmer]

Spain has seemed inept to me at governing for quite some time. I learned about some of their more ridiculous laws about photographing police officers years ago. That said, i side with Spain on this unconstitutional "Catalonian Referendum." I think they should be allowed to flex their muscles to the EU because the EU does not rule Spain. I doubt it's going to have the desired effect though. Personally, I believe the best course of action would to be to ignore these retarded Catalonian liberals.

It would have been the smart play, yes. Instead, they’ve sent in the jackboots every time. Civil war is coming.

Do they even have guns?

They’ll probably repel the government with sheer virtue and manliness.