TFW SJW/BLM is a Russian Plot to Destroy USA

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BjornP
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Re: TFW SJW/BLM is a Russian Plot to Destroy USA

Post by BjornP » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:36 pm

kybkh wrote:
Seriously though Penner, will you at least acknowledge we do the same in every nation we have an interest in and have been doing so for decades?
And you don't think your intelligence services have been doing so for decades because it works?

Arguing "We do X to others, therefore it's ok for others to do X to us", when it comes to international politics is asinine, self-hating bullshit. It's like Americans who argue that it's ok for foreigners to fund and carry out terrorism in the US because "We kill them too!". When you invade a foreign country, do you also wait patiently for them to bomb one of your cities, before you can bomb theirs? :roll:

Russia protects its interests, you are supposed to protect yours. If that means undermining foreign governments, why expect either Russia or the US to abstain from that?
Fame is not flattery. Respect is not agreement.

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clubgop
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Re: TFW SJW/BLM is a Russian Plot to Destroy USA

Post by clubgop » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:46 am

BjornP wrote:
kybkh wrote:
Seriously though Penner, will you at least acknowledge we do the same in every nation we have an interest in and have been doing so for decades?
And you don't think your intelligence services have been doing so for decades because it works?

Arguing "We do X to others, therefore it's ok for others to do X to us", when it comes to international politics is asinine, self-hating bullshit. It's like Americans who argue that it's ok for foreigners to fund and carry out terrorism in the US because "We kill them too!". When you invade a foreign country, do you also wait patiently for them to bomb one of your cities, before you can bomb theirs? :roll:

Russia protects its interests, you are supposed to protect yours. If that means undermining foreign governments, why expect either Russia or the US to abstain from that?
There is a matter of degrees here. Those things you mentioned are crimes. Buying a bunch of Facebook ads with inflammatory political speech even if untrue is protected for an American citizen. For a foreign government its a traffic ticket at best. As for the hacking, if the Russians are involved that's a little more serious, however the DNC IT operation we now know was FUBAR on every level.

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ssu
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Re: TFW SJW/BLM is a Russian Plot to Destroy USA

Post by ssu » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:21 am

kybkh wrote:http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/fe ... ussiagate/

The answer to the question in the title of this article is that Russiagate was created by CIA director John Brennan.The CIA started what is called Russiagate in order to prevent Trump from being able to normalize relations with Russia. The CIA and the military/security complex need an enemy in order to justify their huge budgets and unaccountable power. Russia has been assigned that role. The Democrats joined in as a way of attacking Trump. They hoped to have him tarnished as cooperating with Russia to steal the presidential election from Hillary and to have him impeached. I don’t think the Democrats have considered the consequence of further worsening the relations between the US and Russia.
Oh yes, Russia has been assigned the role of an enemy in order to justify huges budgets and Trump could have threatened this. Poor, poor Russia. How conveniently you forget that both George W Bush and Obama tried to normalize Russia relations with Obama even after the Russo-Georgian war?

How about for one time looking at the situation from the Russian viewpoint, starting from their official Military Doctrine where they state as threats to the Russian Federation in the following order:
12. The main external military risks are:

a) build-up of the power potential of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and vesting NATO with global functions carried out in violation of the rules of international law, bringing the military infrastructure of NATO member countries near the borders of the Russian Federation, including by further expansion of the alliance;

b) destabilization of the situation in individual states and regions and undermining of global and regional stability;

c) deployment (build-up) of military contingents of foreign states (groups of states) in the territories of the states contiguous with the Russian Federation and its allies, as well as in adjacent waters, including for exerting political and military pressure on the Russian Federation;

d) establishment and deployment of strategic missile defense systems undermining global stability and violating the established balance of forces related to nuclear missiles, implementation of the global strike concept, intention to place weapons in outer space, as well as deployment of strategic non-nuclear systems of high-precision weapons;

e) territorial claims against the Russian Federation and its allies and interference in their internal affairs;

f) proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, missiles and missile technologies;

g) violation of international agreements by individual states, as well as non-compliance with previously concluded international treaties in the field of arms prohibition, limitation and reduction;

h) use of military force in the territories of states contiguous with the Russian Federation and its allies in violation of the UN Charter and other norms of international law;

i) existence (emergence) of seats of armed conflict and escalation of such conflicts in the territories of the states contiguous with the Russian Federation and its allies;

j) growing threat of global extremism (terrorism) and its new manifestations under the conditions of insufficiently effective international anti-terrorist cooperation, real threat of terrorist acts with use of radioactive and toxic chemical agents, expansion of transnational organized crime, primarily of illicit arms and drugs trafficking;

k) existence (emergence) of seats of inter-ethnic and inter-confessional tensions, activities of radical international armed groupings and international private military companies in areas adjacent to the state border of the Russian Federation and the borders of its allies, as well as territorial contradictions and upsurge in separatism and extremism in some regions of the world;

l) use of information and communication technologies for the military-political purposes to take actions which run counter to international law, being aimed against sovereignty, political independence, territorial integrity of states and posing threat to the international peace, security, global and regional stability;

m) establishment of regimes, which policies threaten the interests of the Russian Federation in the states contiguous with the Russian Federation, including by overthrowing legitimate state administration bodies;

n) subversive operations of special services and organizations of foreign states and their coalitions against the Russian Federation.
See The Military Doctrine of the Russian Federation.

Note that international terrorism, ISIS is as a threat only at j), not at all mentioned close to the top threats.

And furthermore, Russia just as the Soviet Union has an extensive history in active measures and continues with the approach as it is a way to counter the massive conventional superiority of the United States. Why this is so difficult to understand is beyond me. And one can see that they are doing a great job in it as they aren't bound anymore with any ideological and political constraints as they were during the Soviet Union and the rule of the Communist Party.

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kybkh
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Re: TFW SJW/BLM is a Russian Plot to Destroy USA

Post by kybkh » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:43 am

That was mainly an ironic post but don't act dumb. There have been papers written about how to break the sequester because the American public had lost their hard on for MENA-GWOT.

Hello Russia...goodbye sequestration.
“I've got a phone that allows me to convene Americans from every walk of life, nonprofits, businesses, the private sector, universities to try to bring more and more Americans together around what I think is a unifying theme..." - Obama

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ssu
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Re: TFW SJW/BLM is a Russian Plot to Destroy USA

Post by ssu » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:36 am

kybkh wrote: That was mainly an ironic post but don't act dumb. There have been papers written about how to break the sequester because the American public had lost their hard on for MENA-GWOT.

Hello Russia...goodbye sequestration.
Relations between any two countries are done on multiple levels and different positions. Above all, countries have to cooperate on various levels, so the whole picture is complex. Perfect example is let's say the difference relations with government organizations like CIA and NASA have with their Russian counterparts.

I've allways said I have nothing against better relations between the US and Russia. But how you improve them is the real question as there is so much underlying hostility and suspicion.

Now of course the US has it's share of "active measures", sometimes even as funny as "supporting democracy" in France of all places (when France officially asked what it was about, the US was a bit embarrassed), yet one has to try to put these in context.

Usually it goes that Great Powers are subtle when approaching other Great Powers and First World countries, yet within their sphere of influence especially countries that are part of the Third World and have weak institutions, they can be as Imperialist as they want. The weaker a country is, the more vultures it attracts to take their share of the meal.

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kybkh
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Re: TFW SJW/BLM is a Russian Plot to Destroy USA

Post by kybkh » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:51 am

Quick Run Down:

BLM damages our cohesiveness as a society.

All nations engage in propaganda.

Russian collusion story is fake news.
“I've got a phone that allows me to convene Americans from every walk of life, nonprofits, businesses, the private sector, universities to try to bring more and more Americans together around what I think is a unifying theme..." - Obama

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: TFW SJW/BLM is a Russian Plot to Destroy USA

Post by Speaker to Animals » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:47 am

kybkh wrote:Quick Run Down:

BLM damages our cohesiveness as a society.

All nations engage in propaganda.

Russian collusion story is fake news.

Also, SSU is still pissed about his sister and that Russian NCO.

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Ex-California
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Re: TFW SJW/BLM is a Russian Plot to Destroy USA

Post by Ex-California » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:34 am

apeman wrote:
Lemonade wrote:
California wrote: I'd argue that they are actually helping fix things.

SJW hate is the initial red pill for a lot of people. They start by opposing SJW insanity, and eventually realize the whole Left is insane and Leftist politics are at best utopian and at worst authoritarian.

That's what happened to me
That's my track as well. It started when they started showing up unannounced in my hobbies.
Duuuuuuuuuude

mountainproject.com is the primary site for rock climbing stuff. Forum threads were about best approaches, deals on gear, where to camp, what gear to bring, is this a safe anchor, etc., with half the post just being humor and in-group snark.

Over the last 2 years, the SJW infiltration has been astounding. Look at the current most active thread:
https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/t ... n-climbing
Inclusive Language and diversity in climbing
There is absolutely no conspiracy to keep minorities away from climbing. But now, every other person is concerned with how climbing is dominated by white males, etc.

The shit they write just makes no sense. Like wtf does this mean:
Being a brown, Native woman, I know it’s struggle on a daily basis. Moreover, I know it’s a struggle in the outdoor recreation scene.

It’s a struggle trying to convince white people why brown people should be made a place in the sport I dearly love: climbing.
My black friends would rather die than go camping, never mind climbing.
Jesus Christ.

Even the Lefties on my Surfing message board don't go that far. Although there are some forays into post-full retardation by some of the people. Like the European who claimed he wasn't white because SJW reasons
No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session

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Ex-California
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Re: TFW SJW/BLM is a Russian Plot to Destroy USA

Post by Ex-California » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:34 am

Okeefenokee wrote:
California wrote:
Lemonade wrote:It may not be a conscious effort, but holy fuck SJWs are doing a shitload of damage.
I'd argue that they are actually helping fix things.

SJW hate is the initial red pill for a lot of people. They start by opposing SJW insanity, and eventually realize the whole Left is insane and Leftist politics are at best utopian and at worst authoritarian.

That's what happened to me
Have you read Utopia? I have it on my list. Moby Dick is like twenty fucking hours.
Who's it by? I'll put it on my list
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apeman
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Re: TFW SJW/BLM is a Russian Plot to Destroy USA

Post by apeman » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:42 am

California wrote:Jesus Christ.

Even the Lefties on my Surfing message board don't go that far. Although there are some forays into post-full retardation by some of the people. Like the European who claimed he wasn't white because SJW reasons
None of this existed, at all, for the first 15+ years that I climbed, it is all brand new.

And much worse, it is completely invented. Rock climbers are simply not excluding anyone based on skin color, they exclude based on competence.

><><><
I was a supervisor at a mountainside resort in tahoe:

Image

Many of my employees would bus up from Reno. All mexican.

I became close with Ernesto, who never even tried skiing despite working right next to one of the best hills in north america.

I got him a free ticket and free rentals from a friend who owed me one. Ernesto turned it down. I asked why?

Ernesto told me that only white people try to kill themselves on a mountain, it is dangerous enough being mexican and walking down the street.