Post-America World

[Martin Hash]

My point isn't "oh noes the mean old euros don't like us anymore", it's that losing international trust and goodwill makes the whole "hegemonic" part of being a hegemonic empire break down. Suppose, instead of pursuing a trade deal with the states, the EU instead ops to pursue that deal with China instead. China is belligerent, sure, but maybe the Europeans would be willing to accept that to not have to deal with the Americans. Maybe even they want to punish the Americans a little, show us we're not so special are centrally important as we thought.

Loss of prestige translates to loss of opportunity. We'll still have power, but without the quid pro quos that circulate international trade in our favor, you have no right to be surprised when our former allies decide to leave us in the cold for warmer relations elsewhere. It's a two-way street,when you turn your back on your friends, you don't get to be indignant when they turn their backs on you in return.

Also, start waving the nuke dick around too much, and they may even start talking about "containing" the rogue US state with a slew of alliances against us...

Here's the bottom line: if the rest of the World unites with Communist China against Liberty America, that IS war, isn't it? Wouldn't you be willing to fight to the death to defend liberty? If not, then I see your point.

[KerningChameleon]

My point isn't "oh noes the mean old euros don't like us anymore", it's that losing international trust and goodwill makes the whole "hegemonic" part of being a hegemonic empire break down. Suppose, instead of pursuing a trade deal with the states, the EU instead ops to pursue that deal with China instead. China is belligerent, sure, but maybe the Europeans would be willing to accept that to not have to deal with the Americans. Maybe even they want to punish the Americans a little, show us we're not so special are centrally important as we thought.

Loss of prestige translates to loss of opportunity. We'll still have power, but without the quid pro quos that circulate international trade in our favor, you have no right to be surprised when our former allies decide to leave us in the cold for warmer relations elsewhere. It's a two-way street,when you turn your back on your friends, you don't get to be indignant when they turn their backs on you in return.

Also, start waving the nuke dick around too much, and they may even start talking about "containing" the rogue US state with a slew of alliances against us...

Here's the bottom line: if the rest of the World unites with Communist China against Liberty America, that IS war, isn't it? Wouldn't you be willing to fight to the death to defend liberty? If not, then I see your point.

Well... that really depends, now doesn't it? First and foremost, I always thought the concept of swearing loyalty no matter what to a place just because you happened to be born there was absurd. Should naturalized citizens be considered traitors for "abandoning" their birthlands in favor of becoming American? Should the original colonials be remembered as despicable for openly and successfully rebelling against England and the English people? In my mind, I haven't sworn allegiance to the place America, or even to the people of America; I've sworn allegiance to the idea of America; of the concept of a country where rule of law flows from the consent of the people to ensure the most freedom and prosperity for all who live in it.

If, at that point, it really is still Liberty America, sure I'll defend it. But if I feel, at that point, the people of America have by and large betrayed, through their words and especially their actions, the idea of America? Then, in my mind, Liberty America no longer exists, and thus I have nothing to be loyal to any longer, save myself and my family. At which point, I'll be planning my exodus from this corrupted place.

[SuburbanFarmer]

My point isn't "oh noes the mean old euros don't like us anymore", it's that losing international trust and goodwill makes the whole "hegemonic" part of being a hegemonic empire break down. Suppose, instead of pursuing a trade deal with the states, the EU instead ops to pursue that deal with China instead. China is belligerent, sure, but maybe the Europeans would be willing to accept that to not have to deal with the Americans. Maybe even they want to punish the Americans a little, show us we're not so special are centrally important as we thought.

Loss of prestige translates to loss of opportunity. We'll still have power, but without the quid pro quos that circulate international trade in our favor, you have no right to be surprised when our former allies decide to leave us in the cold for warmer relations elsewhere. It's a two-way street,when you turn your back on your friends, you don't get to be indignant when they turn their backs on you in return.

Also, start waving the nuke dick around too much, and they may even start talking about "containing" the rogue US state with a slew of alliances against us...

Here's the bottom line: if the rest of the World unites with Communist China against Liberty America, that IS war, isn't it? Wouldn't you be willing to fight to the death to defend liberty? If not, then I see your point.

Well... that really depends, now doesn't it? First and foremost, I always thought the concept of swearing loyalty no matter what to a place just because you happened to be born there was absurd. Should naturalized citizens be considered traitors for "abandoning" their birthlands in favor of becoming American? Should the original colonials be remembered as despicable for openly and successfully rebelling against England and the English people? In my mind, I haven't sworn allegiance to the place America, or even to the people of America; I've sworn allegiance to the idea of America; of the concept of a country where rule of law flows from the consent of the people to ensure the most freedom and prosperity for all who live in it.

If, at that point, it really is still Liberty America, sure I'll defend it. But if I feel, at that point, the people of America have by and large betrayed, through their words and especially their actions, the idea of America? Then, in my mind, Liberty America no longer exists, and thus I have nothing to be loyal to any longer, save myself and my family. At which point, I'll be planning my exodus from this corrupted place.

....srsly, it is nice to have someone else with a lick of sense around here. Where the hell were you before??

[Speaker to Animals]

If you don't feel any loyalty to this nation, then perhaps you should leave. If the time comes for us to fight another major war, you will be asked to fight for a nation you feel zero loyalty towards and, frankly, I wouldn't want to serve with you either. I simply wouldn't trust you. No honor. No loyalty. No fidelity. Worthless.

And if you are not willing to fight for this nation, then why should you be living here with even a voice in the form of a vote? You shouldn't.

The world is full of nations that don't expect any loyalty from their citizens. They are shit holes, granted, but there's a reason for their being in that condition that you may want to consider..

Freeloading globalists are a fucking curse on any nation.

[Martin Hash]

Look at that, I agree with StA again. (That's like twice in 2 weeks.)

[SuburbanFarmer]

If you don't feel any loyalty to this nation, then perhaps you should leave. If the time comes for us to fight another major war, you will be asked to fight for a nation you feel zero loyalty towards and, frankly, I wouldn't want to serve with you either. I simply wouldn't trust you. No honor. No loyalty. No fidelity. Worthless.

And if you are not willing to fight for this nation, then why should you be living here with even a voice in the form of a vote? You shouldn't.

The world is full of nations that don't expect any loyalty from their citizens. They are shit holes, granted, but there's a reason for their being in that condition that you may want to consider..

Freeloading globalists are a fucking curse on any nation.

If, by 'major war', you mean a defensive war for the homeland, then I and my kids will be manning the drone-command trailer right next to you. If you mean another invasion of a third-world shithole for oil and MIC jobs, then go fuck yourself.

[Speaker to Animals]

If you don't feel any loyalty to this nation, then perhaps you should leave. If the time comes for us to fight another major war, you will be asked to fight for a nation you feel zero loyalty towards and, frankly, I wouldn't want to serve with you either. I simply wouldn't trust you. No honor. No loyalty. No fidelity. Worthless.

And if you are not willing to fight for this nation, then why should you be living here with even a voice in the form of a vote? You shouldn't.

The world is full of nations that don't expect any loyalty from their citizens. They are shit holes, granted, but there's a reason for their being in that condition that you may want to consider..

Freeloading globalists are a fucking curse on any nation.

If, by 'major war', you mean a defensive war for the homeland, then I and my kids will be manning the drone-command trailer right next to you. If you mean another invasion of a third-world shithole for oil and MIC jobs, then go fuck yourself.

The drone-command trailer? LOL. That will be manned by warrant officers who volunteered long before the war started. You will be in a fox hole with the rest of the conscripts. Which, really, is much more honorable anyway. My dumb ass will be stuck back on the fucking flight line fixing jets 18 hours every day. I'd rather be a conscript.

Pro tip: if you ever enlist, you'd better think long and hard about what field you choose because four years might not be the end of that story.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

I can't wait until we get to the loyalty oaths part of being a liberty nation.

[Speaker to Animals]

I can't wait until we get to the loyalty oaths part of being a liberty nation.

Already there. Been there since 1865..

[SuburbanFarmer]

If you don't feel any loyalty to this nation, then perhaps you should leave. If the time comes for us to fight another major war, you will be asked to fight for a nation you feel zero loyalty towards and, frankly, I wouldn't want to serve with you either. I simply wouldn't trust you. No honor. No loyalty. No fidelity. Worthless.

And if you are not willing to fight for this nation, then why should you be living here with even a voice in the form of a vote? You shouldn't.

The world is full of nations that don't expect any loyalty from their citizens. They are shit holes, granted, but there's a reason for their being in that condition that you may want to consider..

Freeloading globalists are a fucking curse on any nation.

If, by 'major war', you mean a defensive war for the homeland, then I and my kids will be manning the drone-command trailer right next to you. If you mean another invasion of a third-world shithole for oil and MIC jobs, then go fuck yourself.

The drone-command trailer? LOL. That will be manned by warrant officers who volunteered long before the war started. You will be in a fox hole with the rest of the conscripts. Which, really, is much more honorable anyway. My dumb ass will be stuck back on the fucking flight line fixing jets 18 hours every day. I'd rather be a conscript.

Pro tip: if you ever enlist, you'd better think long and hard about what field you choose because four years might not be the end of that story.

Realistically, I'd be in the support building back home, doing IT support. I'll make sure your personal info is in order, for the notice to family and such.