Climate Denier Hard To Refute

[Speaker to Animals]

I went to half-a-dozen dissertation presentations in Antarctica about "Ozone Hole." 4 Doctoral students were claiming it was real & getting worse, and 2 said it was a measurement problem. A few years later, the Ozone Hole was gone! Imagine that - cured by fewer people using deodorant. Wow.

I don't understand why you are holding up the hole in the Ozone layer as some sort of proof that global warming is a hoax.
If anything it is a rare example of what can happen when unprecedented international action to solve a man made environmental problem occurs. No one is arguing that the ozone hole doesn't exist and banning CFC's has taken 30 years to start reversing the effects of such chemicals. The action taken to solve the ozone problem has proved effective but as GCF said earlier it was a much simpler and cheaper problem to cure than global warming.
As with any dependency such as drugs or alcohol first we have to recognise there is a problem with the burning of fossil fuels and that CO2 levels are causing global warming before a solution can be found. Denying there is a problem or claiming there is no solution is selling future generations down the river so we can continue with our comfortable life styles. Burying our heads in the sand and shouting "it's all a socialist hoax" is such a selfish way to behave that future generations will consider us far worse than any of the dictators of the 20th century.

Fixing the ozone hole was straightforward enough.

The problem here is that climate scientists offer no meaningful solutions to their human-caused climate change hypothesis, much less proof that it is true. The vague solutions I have heard are so outlandish as to be farcical. I am becoming convinced that the leftist controlled media can't produce comedy any longer because they have become utterly blind to the comedy that is themselves.

The funniest shit out there is them, and yet they hate being mocked.

[apeman]

but where's the profit motive in that?

Without a profit motive, you ain't driving any trucks made in the last several decades, you are Cuba.

Suits me fine, old trucks are much easier to keep on the road. The profit motive can be in keeping me supplied with parts.

No parts either.

Soldiers push the vehicle and trailer carrying the ashes of Fidel Castro after it broke down during the procession.

[Montegriffo]

Without a profit motive, you ain't driving any trucks made in the last several decades, you are Cuba.

Suits me fine, old trucks are much easier to keep on the road. The profit motive can be in keeping me supplied with parts.

No parts either.

Soldiers push the vehicle and trailer carrying the ashes of Fidel Castro after it broke down during the procession.

The reason Cubans had no spare parts was a result of the embargo, in fact the admirable make do and mend attitude which kept cars running for 60 or 70 years is something we could all learn from. That is exactly what we should be doing with our high polluting products not treating them as a fashion accessory to be replaced every couple of years. It takes a car about 20 years to emit the amount of CO2 it takes to manufacture one so we should be aiming for cars to last a long time not be disposable like razors and plastic bags.

[apeman]

Fair enough.

But why didn't Cuba produce its own autos in response to the embargo?

Could it be something to do with profit motive?

[SuburbanFarmer]

Fair enough.

But why didn't Cuba produce its own autos in response to the embargo?

Could it be something to do with profit motive?

Probably a complete lack of raw materials and infrastructure....
Not a lot of iron or oil in limestone, I'm afraid.

[apeman]

Could Cuba not trade with any of its allies?

[Speaker to Animals]

Fair enough.

But why didn't Cuba produce its own autos in response to the embargo?

Could it be something to do with profit motive?

Probably a complete lack of raw materials and infrastructure....
Not a lot of iron or oil in limestone, I'm afraid.

Iceland is far more resource poor.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Could Cuba not trade with any of its allies?

I've wondered this myself, actually. Cuba should have been receiving trade benefits from alignment with the USSR/Russia all these years, but they still starved. I think this was because our embargo was more of a political siege. It was a cargo freighter that we stopped in 1963, after all. I think they've been completely isolated from the rest of the world this entire time.

[Montegriffo]

Fair enough.

But why didn't Cuba produce its own autos in response to the embargo?

Could it be something to do with profit motive?

I think you will find China is still a communist nation and they have no trouble manufacturing and polluting on a scale which can embarrass the efforts of any Western nation. The unchecked profit motive is a barrier to environmental policies whether they are Marxist or Capitalist. The answer lies in placing global warming reduction policies above the pursuit of profit at any cost.
Besides which there are profits to be made in clean energy and transportation but the vested interests of big business, oil and other fossil fuels outrank and out lobby them.
In fact the carbon footprint of the average Cuban compared to the average Westerner is no contest.

[apeman]

Fair enough.

But why didn't Cuba produce its own autos in response to the embargo?

Could it be something to do with profit motive?

I think you will find China is still a communist nation and they have no trouble manufacturing and polluting on a scale which can embarrass the efforts of any Western nation. The unchecked profit motive is a barrier to environmental policies whether they are Marxist or Capitalist. The answer lies in placing global warming reduction policies above the pursuit of profit at any cost.
Besides which there are profits to be made in clean energy and transportation but the vested interests of big business, oil and other fossil fuels outrank and out lobby them.
In fact the carbon footprint of the average Cuban compared to the average Westerner is no contest.

Fair enough.

I would support immediate removal of all subsidies for fossil fuels. Let's see how much this shit really costs, let's see what other sources really cost.

But I'm not sure how you feel about market prices, I believe they convey essential information required to figure out how to address any obstacle, AGW included. Not sure how you get prices without a market, not sure how you have a market without profit motive.