U.S.-Russia relations

[Smitty-48]

Don't bother, ssu, it's all part of his quasi-fascistic white power revanchist fantasies, the Russians as his "brothers in arms" against western bourgeois liberalism, he's a useful idiot for them, because he wants to be.

But that's just it. Russian foreign policy is awesome right now, does truly have a supportive base, because it plays on issues that have genuine support. Nuke obviously has his viewpoints, but he's not a moron.

When Russians were stuck to their ideological restraints of Marxism-Leninism, the KGB didn't have much influence in the West, because the communists were a marginal group. But now comes a shrewd player that can play this game. The playbook is the same, the methods are the same, but now the message is far more compelling and far more adaptable. That's what has changed.

Be that as it may, Americans should not lose sight of the fact, that this is still the same KGB, and as such, they are not America's good faith partner, and never in fact will be.

[ssu]

Be that as it may, Americans should not lose sight of the fact, that this is still the same KGB, and as such, they are not America's good faith partner, and never will be.

Yep. And the KBG isn't equivalent to Russians. Russia is what it is because of the police state it never shed away.

Anyway, even it's good to be critical about your leaders of your country and critical about the actions your government makes, a necessity for a republic to work, yet one still ought to remember that they are your guys. Foreigners look after themselves. Really nice if people get along, nice if self-centered nation states found common ground, but still, never think they are the good guys and your own guys are the bad guys.

[TheReal_ND]

Indeed....

[Xenophon]

Be that as it may, Americans should not lose sight of the fact, that this is still the same KGB, and as such, they are not America's good faith partner, and never will be.

Yep. And the KBG isn't equivalent to Russians. Russia is what it is because of the police state it never shed away.

Anyway, even it's good to be critical about your leaders of your country and critical about the actions your government makes, a necessity for a republic to work, yet one still ought to remember that they are your guys. Foreigners look after themselves. Really nice if people get along, nice if self-centered nation states found common ground, but still, never think they are the good guys and your own guys are the bad guys.

In these days of marginalization, those in power might not be your guys even if they are Americans. If The Kremlin supports (however insincerely) something that a segment of the American population agrees with and is marginalized for it by their leadership, then it's no wonder people have a more positive view of Russia. While their own government shoves something down their throat, Ivan is in the back with cool shades on, saying, " I know man, I've been there. We're not so different, you and I." Silently forming a fifth column in the event of a war. They're doing this crap all over Europe, and now the US.

And I'm not so sure I'm opposed to it. Ask me again in ten years.

[ssu]

In these days of marginalization, those in power might not be your guys even if they are Americans. If The Kremlin supports (however insincerely) something that a segment of the American population agrees with and is marginalized for it by their leadership, then it's no wonder people have a more positive view of Russia. While their own government shoves something down their throat, Ivan is in the back with cool shades on, saying, " I know man, I've been there. We're not so different, you and I." Silently forming a fifth column in the event of a war. They're doing this crap all over Europe, and now the US.

And I'm not so sure I'm opposed to it. Ask me again in ten years.

What it comes down to is a huge fail in getting Americans to believe in their own institutions and their government.

Perhaps it's been taken as granted by the US government that people would support them. Now Americans might say positive things about their country, when that country is described in vague theoretical terms or in a romantic way, but when that country as a sovereign nation is referred to, when it's the US government, the US public sector, that surely isn't about what that "America" is about. No, it's nearly an enemy for Americans that is against everything America stands for.

This idea everything bad in the World happens because of your government, "It's all our evil governments fault" is something people even here whine about. It's like a German apologizing for us Finns for war crimes done by German forces in the Lapland war during WW2 and then not believing if we answer that actually Germans didn't do any warcrimes (as we weren't untermenschen, big difference). Nope, they had to kill innocent civilians here too, because they did that in Russia and in Poland. And American liberals have a similar kind of crying line: if Russia does something bad, who cares, the US has had to do something equally bad or even far worse. Russians are only here the victims, it's the US that has pushed them to respond with attacking their neighbours.

Where does this absurd idea come from, really?

I'm starting to think that in the end the KGB succeeded in it's subversion and demoralization, even if the Soviet Union failed and Marxism-Leninism wasn't such a hit with the masses. Or perhaps it's the constant never ending mud-slinging that goes on all the time against the ruling administration by the opposition. It creates this echo-chamber that the US government never does anything right and everything is done wrong all the time.

A repeat for those, who haven't looked at this:

"who is already demoralized is unable to assess true information, the facts tell nothing to him."

[TheReal_ND]

[Smitty-48]

“In the near term, I think the most dangerous might be Russia. I would just tell you that as you look at the Russia situation, I think it is much more severe and much more serious than we have acknowledged. There is the potential, I believe, that Putin has unleashed forces that he will be personally unable to control” ~James N. Mattis, General (ret.) USMC.

[TheReal_ND]

Mattis is right. We must crush the Russian. We will fight them with our army of women and transgendered infantry persons!

[Speaker to Animals]

That sums up the situation.

[Smitty-48]

Our MND would kick Mattis' ass, mop the floor with him with ease, wouldn't even be a contest.