Barack Obama's Legacy -- How strong of a President is he historically?

[C-Mag]

@ John Donne
I don't know how you can see me as attempting to bail anyone out. I dug this topic out of the graveyard with my claim that Trump will be Obama's Legacy back on page one. BroGrump stepped in and started making the claim of Obama as a Statesman. Monte listed off what he considered Statesman accomplishments and Okee put his own opinion on those.

Now, I've tried to deal with the first 'Statesman' success listed by Monte, the Paris Climate agreement, No one has countered my argument. It's pretty easy to disprove the Obama was Scandal-less Myth. Obama violated spying laws and treated it as jaywalking. He had a Fucking Spy inside the Trump Campaign, and was electronically spying on the Trump Campaign. If care at all for the Democratic election process.............. and maybe you don't, you should revile Obama for that alone.

I've always given BHO credit for OBL. Barry eventually made the decision to sign a cross border authority and send troops into Pakistan to get him. IMO, his biggest success.......................... but then he failed miserably. He should have immediately pulled the plug on GWOT. Not only did he not end GWOT, he expanded it in perfect Progressive fashion to Africa and the Arabian Peninsula.
Now a 3rd POTUS has to deal with it.

P5 posted a link to a great article about BHO. Summed up his pResidency in the Whitehouse well. P5's stuff clearly show the man was not at all a Statesman. He wouldn't work with the opposition party at all, but he would abuse spying laws and use of the IRS to punish political opponents.

Note: Only a fool underestimates opponents.................. Don't worry about what I'm saying, you should worry about Okee you are having the debate with.

[kybkh]

[pineapplemike]

When I think of being a "statesman" or rather the positive aspects of Barack Obama, this is what I typically think of



This is definitely an aspect of the presidency that has been lost with the arrival of the Alpha Cheeto. Maybe it isn't an important aspect of the presidency, but it is something that has been lost. I like lower taxes and guns and all but I do like having the president be capable of these types of moments. Not that Hillary is capable either, but I'll give Obama credit where it's due.

[JohnDonne]

The ACA is not healthcare reform. Hence why it is almost universally disliked. Without the individual mandate it will die.

I like how it went from "eliminated," to, "oversaw."

Hell, I oversaw that shit too. Carlus, you oversee that shit?

See, when you use a random criteria to say something is not reform, like for example citing approval ratings, you should probably make sure that you’re at least right that it’s “almost universally disliked.”

http://news.gallup.com/poll/222734/affo ... highs.aspx

While half of U.S. adults currently approve of the ACA, 44% disapprove in Gallup's annual November Health and Healthcare survey, conducted Nov. 2-8. One year ago, after the 2016 general election, 42% of Americans approved of the law and 53% disapproved.

Half seems mighty far from almost universal, so the inverse of your logic should apply then, it was reform.

Republicans gutting a reform bill doesn’t change the fact that it was passed and is still going eight years later, it still happened, there is no predicting what modifications it will recieve in the future so calling it dead is as sensible as predicting it will go on forever.

Obama oversaw the elimination of Bin Laden, obviously he didn’t kill Bin Laden with his own hands, you’re not so stupid to think that’s what presidents do, he made the decision for a helicopter night raid, he gave the go ahead, he was the ultimate authority overseeing the entire operation, commander in chief, you’re just embarrassing yourself trying to deny it, with this “hey Carlus” act.
Carlus can’t bail you out of this, don’t look to him.
Imagine if Trump oversaw the killing of Bin Laden, he would get his due, but hacks gotta hack.

Oh look. More bullshit polls. I'm sure they're right this time. Not like there's a political agenda or anything.

Ten House Democrats propose plan to fix ObamaCare
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/34 ... -obamacare

because that's what you do when you like something, you admit it's broken.

If Trump came into office and learned there was already an operation in the making, did absolutely jack shit to forward it, and happened to still be in office when it concluded, then no, he wouldn't get credit for it.

If Trump came into office and initiated a North Korea peace process, I doubt he would even get cre.....oh wait. That already happened.

Your faith in your savior seems to be lacking though. You straight up abandoned all the other claims. You're planting your flag on the reform that's a fucking dumpster fire, and a military operation he had nothing to do with.

Notice this taking credit for anything that happens during a term never applies to failures, crimes, and scandals.

I didn’t abandon any claims, but who has the manpower to clean up the exponential bullshit factory that is your posting history? No one.

Just like when you pull an “almost universally disliked” out of your ass and dismiss actual data contradicting your claim with no evidence. Then you say because Democrats attempted to amend the bill it was not reform. Apparently not in the eyes of over half of all Americans, popularity being your criteria for “true reform” in the first place, I remind you. But keep moving those goal posts.

Now, you’ve decided to minimize Obama’s role in Bin Laden’s killing despite the fact that he made key decisions of the operation, gave the green light, oversaw the operations, so one can only conclude you are completely dishonest and/or deluded by your hate boner for Obama.

Note: just because I don’t have an irrational hate boner for Obama doesn’t make him my “savior” in fact I voted against him in 2012 and I am a critic of him for most of the reasons listed in this thread. I don’t have to like someone to correct the record about them. That’s the nuance that seems to elude you continually.

[JohnDonne]

@ John Donne
I don't know how you can see me as attempting to bail anyone out. I dug this topic out of the graveyard with my claim that Trump will be Obama's Legacy back on page one. BroGrump stepped in and started making the claim of Obama as a Statesman. Monte listed off what he considered Statesman accomplishments and Okee put his own opinion on those.

Now, I've tried to deal with the first 'Statesman' success listed by Monte, the Paris Climate agreement, No one has countered my argument. It's pretty easy to disprove the Obama was Scandal-less Myth. Obama violated spying laws and treated it as jaywalking. He had a Fucking Spy inside the Trump Campaign, and was electronically spying on the Trump Campaign. If care at all for the Democratic election process.............. and maybe you don't, you should revile Obama for that alone.

I've always given BHO credit for OBL. Barry eventually made the decision to sign a cross border authority and send troops into Pakistan to get him. IMO, his biggest success.......................... but then he failed miserably. He should have immediately pulled the plug on GWOT. Not only did he not end GWOT, he expanded it in perfect Progressive fashion to Africa and the Arabian Peninsula.
Now a 3rd POTUS has to deal with it.

P5 posted a link to a great article about BHO. Summed up his pResidency in the Whitehouse well. P5's stuff clearly show the man was not at all a Statesman. He wouldn't work with the opposition party at all, but he would abuse spying laws and use of the IRS to punish political opponents.

Note: Only a fool underestimates opponents.................. Don't worry about what I'm saying, you should worry about Okee you are having the debate with.

Carlus, Okee invoked you in the debate, I told him correctly that you would not be bailing him out, that’s the extent that I referenced you. And again, who said I don’t blame Obama for the IRS scandal, NSA, etc?

[Okeefenokee]

See, when you use a random criteria to say something is not reform, like for example citing approval ratings, you should probably make sure that you’re at least right that it’s “almost universally disliked.”

http://news.gallup.com/poll/222734/affo ... highs.aspx



Half seems mighty far from almost universal, so the inverse of your logic should apply then, it was reform.

Republicans gutting a reform bill doesn’t change the fact that it was passed and is still going eight years later, it still happened, there is no predicting what modifications it will recieve in the future so calling it dead is as sensible as predicting it will go on forever.

Obama oversaw the elimination of Bin Laden, obviously he didn’t kill Bin Laden with his own hands, you’re not so stupid to think that’s what presidents do, he made the decision for a helicopter night raid, he gave the go ahead, he was the ultimate authority overseeing the entire operation, commander in chief, you’re just embarrassing yourself trying to deny it, with this “hey Carlus” act.
Carlus can’t bail you out of this, don’t look to him.
Imagine if Trump oversaw the killing of Bin Laden, he would get his due, but hacks gotta hack.

Oh look. More bullshit polls. I'm sure they're right this time. Not like there's a political agenda or anything.

Ten House Democrats propose plan to fix ObamaCare
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/34 ... -obamacare

because that's what you do when you like something, you admit it's broken.

If Trump came into office and learned there was already an operation in the making, did absolutely jack shit to forward it, and happened to still be in office when it concluded, then no, he wouldn't get credit for it.

If Trump came into office and initiated a North Korea peace process, I doubt he would even get cre.....oh wait. That already happened.

Your faith in your savior seems to be lacking though. You straight up abandoned all the other claims. You're planting your flag on the reform that's a fucking dumpster fire, and a military operation he had nothing to do with.

Notice this taking credit for anything that happens during a term never applies to failures, crimes, and scandals.

I didn’t abandon any claims, but who has the manpower to clean up the exponential bullshit factory that is your posting history? No one.

Just like when you pull an “almost universally disliked” out of your ass and dismiss actual data contradicting your claim with no evidence. Then you say because Democrats attempted to amend the bill it was not reform. Apparently not in the eyes of over half of all Americans, popularity being your criteria for “true reform” in the first place, I remind you. But keep moving those goal posts.

Now, you’ve decided to minimize Obama’s role in Bin Laden’s killing despite the fact that he made key decisions of the operation, gave the green light, oversaw the operations, so one can only conclude you are completely dishonest and/or deluded by your hate boner for Obama.

Note: just because I don’t have an irrational hate boner for Obama doesn’t make him my “savior” in fact I voted against him in 2012 and I am a critic of him for most of the reasons listed in this thread. I don’t have to like someone to correct the record about them. That’s the nuance that seems to elude you continually.

Pulling shit out of your ass. Premiums are up across the board, republicans have put up bills to kill it, democrats have put forward bills to fix it, individual mandate is dead. Chalk that up as a resounding success if you want.

Everything you said about Osama is horseshit. The operation was underway before he was elected. He didn't do anything except sit back and wait for it to play out.

Not to mention zero evidence was ever presented that he was actually killed, and the DNA evidence Obama said was used to verify his identity was later admitted by the pentagon to have never existed.

Obama's actual legacy is the thoroughness of his weaponization of the executive branch and the MSM. Both of which have been exposed and will hang over his name forever.

[JohnDonne]

"High premiums means it wasn't reform!"

"Osama is still alive!"

[Okeefenokee]

These were offered up as victories or achievements. I'm countering the idea that these were things accomplished by Obama that will be remembered as his personal achievements.

I told you you couldn't read.

[Fife]

Hey J.D.:

[C-Mag]

Let's not forget Obama killed Qaddaffi too............. that was the work of a Great Statesman, look how it turned out.