DACA

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Funny, since you started the candy bar analogy to support your argument.

Comparing illegal immigration to stealing from a store wasn't my idea. My comment illustrates why it is a bad analogy.

I know it is time consuming, but reading the comments before and after the one you want to respond to is useful, and it saves trouble in the long run.

[Hastur]

Funny, since you started the candy bar analogy to support your argument.

Comparing illegal immigration to stealing from a store wasn't my idea. My comment illustrates why it is a bad analogy.

I know it is time consuming, but reading the comments before and after the one you want to respond to is useful, and it saves trouble in the long run.

If a family breaks into your house while you're away and start to live there. They use your furniture and eat your food. They don't break anything much and actually keep the place cleaner than you do by yourself.

What do you do when you come home?

1. Let them stay.
2. Throw them all out.
3. Throw out the parents only.

[C-Mag]

Hastur making things simple.

[Viktorthepirate]

I can't support kicking out a 15 year old who can't even remember living anywhere but here.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Funny, since you started the candy bar analogy to support your argument.

Comparing illegal immigration to stealing from a store wasn't my idea. My comment illustrates why it is a bad analogy.

I know it is time consuming, but reading the comments before and after the one you want to respond to is useful, and it saves trouble in the long run.

If a family breaks into your house while you're away and start to live there. They use your furniture and eat your food. They don't break anything much and actually keep the place cleaner than you do by yourself.

What do you do when you come home?

1. Let them stay.
2. Throw them all out.
3. Throw out the parents only.

Arguing from analogy is, as I said, usually specious.

My argument is that the onus is on the state to justify the compulsion of people who haven't, of their own volition, committed any crime. States aren't like property owners, just as citizenship isn't a consumer product.

Bad analogies.

[Hastur]

Comparing illegal immigration to stealing from a store wasn't my idea. My comment illustrates why it is a bad analogy.

I know it is time consuming, but reading the comments before and after the one you want to respond to is useful, and it saves trouble in the long run.

If a family breaks into your house while you're away and start to live there. They use your furniture and eat your food. They don't break anything much and actually keep the place cleaner than you do by yourself.

What do you do when you come home?

1. Let them stay.
2. Throw them all out.
3. Throw out the parents only.

Arguing from analogy is, as I said, usually specious.

My argument is that the onus is on the state to justify the compulsion of people who haven't, of their own volition, committed any crime. States aren't like property owners, just as citizenship isn't a consumer product.

Bad analogies.

So you're falling back to the other people's money defense. :shrug:

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

So you're falling back to the other people's money defense. :shrug:

You are inventing weak arguments and giving them to me when your analogies fail.

counter :shrug:

[Hastur]

So you're falling back to the other people's money defense. :shrug:

You are inventing weak arguments and giving them to me when your analogies fail.

counter :shrug:

The analogy didn't fail. You fail at placing responsibility for the trespassers. Non US citizens are not the responsibility of the US people or state. Quite the opposite, actually. It is the responsibility of the state to protect its citizens from having to deal with illegal use of public resources and to minimize the competition from an illegal work market.

You can be pragmatic about it and see some of them as potential human resources and try to move them from the black market into the white if there is a win - win situation. I have no problem with that kind of solution, but no one can demand anything like that and the moral obligation to do so is non existent.

Just as you can let the family who broke into your home stay in the poolhouse if they help with the cleaning and promise to pay rent.

[The Conservative]

I wonder what country you can go to, rob a store, give the goods to someone else and then cry when the goods are seized. Why are you punishing them? They really liked what I gave them!


Because it wasn't yours to begin with numbnuts, no matter how attached the recipient became to the stolen goods.

Again, if I steal and either sell or give away the property, the recipient doesn't get to keep it, just because they really like it. They're not being punished.

If I steal a candy bar form a bodega and give it to you, and you eat it, what lengths should we be expected to go to to secure the cost of the candy bar from your wallet?

I can, and should, be punished for my theft, but you aren't responsible for it.

The candy bar... well, it is never coming back. If you want to prevent the crime of me stealing it, invent a time machine.

Both parties are held accountable. If a car is stolen and you are given it as a gift, the person that stole it will be arrested, and the car will be returned to where it belongs. You'll be out a car, possibly money and if you knew it was stolen you may be arrested too for knowingly accepting stolen property.

This is more akin to what we are talking about.

[Ph64]

I can't support kicking out a 15 year old who can't even remember living anywhere but here.

Great, we'll send them all to your house and you can take care of them. You might need a somewhat larger house, but I'm sure you'll have no problem spending your own money on that. It will probably overwhelm your local school system too, but again I'm sure you're fine with a hefty property tax hike on your new home - although your neighbors might not appreciate it much. Don't expect big govt handouts though, as it happens we're pretty much broke and living on borrowed time/money as it is.