Our Guy Flynn

[Speaker to Animals]

“I sent the cavalry behind to them.
“The Germans heard screams behind him, and when they saw that their wives and children were slain, they threw down their weapons and ran headlong away from the camp.
“When they had come to the point where the Meuse and Rhine rivers flow together, they saw no good in further flights.
“A large number of them were slain, and the rest fell into the river, where they died overwhelmed by anxiety, fatigue and strength of the current.” — Caesar, De Bello Gallico Book 4, 14-15

[Smitty-48]

Another thing about the Battle of Carthage, is that it wasn't so much a case of the Romans engaging in mass slaughter of defenseless non-combatants after the fact, what actually occured is that the Carthaginians fought the Romans street to street and house to house, even after the Romans had achieved the breach, but once the Carthaginians did finally capitulate, the Romans did in fact cease hostilites and accept the surrender, at which point, the Romans conducted their usual routine of absorbing the human capital of Carthage into Rome, primarily by selling them into slavery, but not everyone in Carthage was killed, nor even taken as a slave, and most people in Carthage accepted Roman rule, once the war was over.

The former Carthaginians became Romans, and the area was turned into Roman farmland, with a mix of new Roman settler, and formerly Carthaginan now Roman tenants.

[Smitty-48]

The Age of Genocidal Mass Extermination, is not Imperial Rome 1st to 5th Centuries, the Age of Genocidal Mass Extermination is rather the 20th Century, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, it's a very modern concept, for Imperial Rome, the name of the game was to acquire slaves and auxilliaries, the Romans did not wipe out the human capital that they needed to run their empire, that sort of thing doesn't really come into play in a big way, until the industrial age.

It is only in the industrial age, where industrial capital supllants human capital, that genocidal extermination becomes viable for the first time.

These Holocausts, are actually made possible, by the rise of the industrial machine in place of people and livestock, as the drivers of capital.

[kybkh]

[adwinistrator]

Neocons were a small cabal that simply got their message to the masses.

They weren't a small cabal, they were Empire of Liberty National Security Hawk Reagan Democrats, that's like three quarters of the American population.

Americans pointing fingers at the "Neocons!" is just typical American bullshit; blaming leviathan, Americans are Neocons, it's Neocon Nation, and nobody ever had to force it on them, they lapped it up, they still lap it up, as if Trump is not a Neocon, I mean, please, get real, Trump is an archetypal Neocon, an OG Reagan Democrat if there ever was one.

The vast majority of Americans claiming not to be Neocons, are totally full of shit, including most of the Neocons around here.

Neoconservative != interventionism. The vast majority of American's are interventionist, but not all are Neoconservatives.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Neocons were a small cabal that simply got their message to the masses.

They weren't a small cabal, they were Empire of Liberty National Security Hawk Reagan Democrats, that's like three quarters of the American population.

Americans pointing fingers at the "Neocons!" is just typical American bullshit; blaming leviathan, Americans are Neocons, it's Neocon Nation, and nobody ever had to force it on them, they lapped it up, they still lap it up, as if Trump is not a Neocon, I mean, please, get real, Trump is an archetypal Neocon, an OG Reagan Democrat if there ever was one.

The vast majority of Americans claiming not to be Neocons, are totally full of shit, including most of the Neocons around here.

Neoconservative != interventionism. The vast majority of American's are interventionist, but not all are Neoconservatives.

I disagree with the premise. There is absolutely no majority of "interventionists" in America, that I'm aware of. I have yet to meet anyone hyped up to send troops to the Middle East, or Africa.

I'd like to see some sources for this opinion.

[adwinistrator]

You bunch of fucking cucks.

Hey, I didn't cuck, I was all good with Flynn, I think Trump should have stood by Flynn and said "yeah, we talked to the Russians, so what?", but nothing I can do if Trump is going to throw his people under the bus to make peace with the Neocons, and I can certainly see the logic in burying the hatchet, it's one thing to fight the Democrats, it's quite another to fight everybody at once, if Trump's going to get anything done, he needs to get the GOP rallying around him, unified against the Teachers Unions & Co., and he needs staff, he needs to staff this place up with experienced people, and you can't get those people from Breitbart and Infowars.

When I read this forum, I realize I don't really understand the use of the word "cuck". The diverse range of actions, behaviors, and signals gets confusing...

I think Jay Rosen really hit the bullseye in this piece, it really pinpoints "the problem" that I think a lot of you see in regards to the Trump administration's response with Flynn's resignation.

Press Think - Jay Rosen - Steve Bannon’s styrofoam balls (2/15/17)

For a moment there I thought these guys were serious about treating the news media as “the opposition party” and trying to remove it as a check on power. That seemed to be the plan. They had the pieces in place. But when Michael Flynn was vanquished from the White House they revealed to us that for now at least they’re unable go through with it.

Here’s Greg Sargent:

Trump’s top adviser Stephen K. Bannon has offered up sublime bluster about how the news media has “no power,” arguing that its aggressive reporting on the Trump White House reflects nothing more than panicked media elite shrieking about the “new political order” that Trump is raising out of the ashes of the corrupt old order. As I’ve argued, the Trump White House has established — as an explicit, actionable doctrine — the goal of trying to obliterate the possibility of agreement on the news media’s legitimate institutional role in informing the citizenry, and even on facts and reality itself.

I agree: That’s what they’re trying to do. But if you’re going to do it, you have to really do it. It’s not like reality gives up easily, and lets you roll right over it. You can’t just say to the national press “you’re fake news” and “so biased no one believes you” like some once-in-a-generation tough guy and then when it gets really tough switch back to freaking out over what’s in the news.

The way they’re acting, you’d think these guys had never transcended reality or slipped the bonds of surly pundits before. Look at this report: should have a ‘pitiful if true’ sticker on it.

According to three people close to Mr. Trump, the president made the decision to cast aside Mr. Flynn in a flash, the catalyst being a news alert of a coming article about the matter.

“Yeah, it’s time,” Mr. Trump told one of his advisers.

The trigger was a news report? That’s not how you do it. Leaks that are published in the fake news media (Trump’s term) are fake leaks! You have to call them that. And you have to act on that understanding. As soon as you let on that you’re using the news media the way other people do — to find out what’s happening, for real — you’re showing reality that it can roll you. I can’t believe I have to explain this to a Graduated Leninist like Steve Bannon, but I guess I do. Here are the steps:

1. “This isn’t happening.” Basic stuff! Anyone who says it is happening is off the team, outside the circle of power. These stories about Mike Flynn connecting with Russian officials, talking about sanctions on Russia, lying about it to the Vice President: that’s the biased media being the opposition party and spreading misinformation again. Like the news is fake, the sources are fake. If these “government officials” know so much, let them identify themselves. If there are recordings, where are they? Anyone can fake a transcript. Etc.
2. We are not the investigated, we investigate! You don’t fire your guy because journalists report he’s a liar and a cheat. That’s reality-based. You’re against all that, remember? You keep him in his post and start digging into who’s leaking and receiving the nation’s secrets. Every time the press asks about the Flynn mess you brag about how far-reaching your leak investigation is. They say Flynn’s calls were monitored? Well, we know how to monitor calls to find out who’s passing you this fake information. Drop the hint. This is Distortion Field 101, fellas.
3. No one in the press or the DC establishment will believe you; that’s the whole point! Incredulity is their gift to you. The opposition party is everyone who listens to the news and says: actually, this Flynn thing is happening. The more shocked and voluble they are, the better for you as our polarizers-in-chief. The wind of their insistence gives lift to your resistance. Didn’t your instructor in Wedge Tectonics go over any of this?
4. Supporters have to either a.) join in calling it fake news or b.) face spiritual collapse. You used to understand this. Back when you were on your game, like during the Sean Spicer debut. You let everyone on your side know the deal… Wanna be on the team? Then look at those pictures and see larger crowds for Trump. For that’s the price. Price too high? Then you can step off right now. Here, you want the worm of doubt to creep up a little— so it can be banished by core supporters. (And there’s frisson in that.) You gesture toward cognitive dissonance so extreme it would crush normal people, as in: the man who ‘tells it like it is’ lies constantly, about everything. You flash that fact, they flee it. Win for you.

If that’s winning, this is losing. Greg Sargent again:

This Flynn episode suggests that facts and reality do matter. The Trump White House is not invulnerable to them. A dogged and determined press corps can indeed ferret them out, notwithstanding the White House’s efforts to render them meaningless and irrelevant — or indeed to make them disappear.

He’s right. They got rolled by reality, as if reality had that kind of muscle! But what stands out for me is: Bannon, Trump, Miller, Conway, Spicer, the inner circle: they didn’t even try to show reality that it can be rolled. Let’s go over it again: You act as though this isn’t happening. You threaten to investigate those who document that it is. You remind the press that it has no power because it was humiliated in 2016. They remonstrate, you escalate. Use the pundit shows and briefing room to polarize. Cognitive dissonance takes care of your party and core supporters, but you have to show reality who’s boss.

Bannon is the one who surprises me. He pushed for Flynn’s firing? That’s standard eliminate-a-rival behavior, exactly what an establishment climber would do. He’s no Lenin. Turns out he has balls of styrofoam, and I think I know the reason. He reads the New York Times and Washington Post with fear in his heart. Like normal people in power do.

[SuburbanFarmer]

You bunch of fucking cucks.

Hey, I didn't cuck, I was all good with Flynn, I think Trump should have stood by Flynn and said "yeah, we talked to the Russians, so what?", but nothing I can do if Trump is going to throw his people under the bus to make peace with the Neocons, and I can certainly see the logic in burying the hatchet, it's one thing to fight the Democrats, it's quite another to fight everybody at once, if Trump's going to get anything done, he needs to get the GOP rallying around him, unified against the Teachers Unions & Co., and he needs staff, he needs to staff this place up with experienced people, and you can't get those people from Breitbart and Infowars.

When I read this forum, I realize I don't really understand the use of the word "cuck". The diverse range of actions, behaviors, and signals gets confusing...

So far as I can tell, it means anyone of less manly virtue than the poster. Anything less than the paragon ideal of steadfastness is a 'cuck'.

[Smitty-48]

I think Jay Rosen really hit the bullseye in this piece, it really pinpoints "the problem" that I think a lot of you see in regards to the Trump administration's response with Flynn's resignation.

Press Think - Jay Rosen - Steve Bannon’s styrofoam balls (2/15/17)

Well they can't really believe that they can survive a total war with the media for the next four years, the media might not be able to penetrate your hardcore base without finding a Watergate, but they will have significant effects on the swing vote, Trump will be planning his reelection campaign, and pretty sure he realizes that long before he gets to that, he's going to need to tamp this constant furor down, and I can only see two real avenues, the main one is the economy of course, but the other one is chucking the Outiders under the bus and making peace with the Neocons, I mean, realpolitik.

Otherwise, he's just gonna get leaked to death, drip, drip, drip.

[StCapps]

I disagree with the premise. There is absolutely no majority of "interventionists" in America, that I'm aware of. I have yet to meet anyone hyped up to send troops to the Middle East, or Africa.

I'd like to see some sources for this opinion.

Dude no non-interventionist are getting elected. People only elect intervention because they prefer intervention. If they weren't a majority of interventionists in America than way more politicians would be sounding like Ron Paul to get elected, but they aren't. They play the tough on terror card instead, because that obviously works better than the non-intervention card. You just wish your fellow American's agree with you on foreign policy, they don't. You are misfit toy, the rest don't think the way that you do.