Minimum Wage just went up to $11.50 in Washington State. The price of milk is $2.68 a Gallon.

[jediuser598]

I hope jedi gets something out of this very thread, cus the ignominy of my situation definitively prompted me to do something. If all work was deemed respectable maybe I'd be satisfied doing nothing. Still, I wish I had somebody to tell me to something, join the the army, or advice on where to work, or even just tell me how worthless I was. I guess I didn't have the experience or wisdom to even know where to begin. I worked hard, but for so long, it was just pointless.

It isn't like that.

[jediuser598]

Halting illegal immigration (or really mass immigration in general) would do more to improve working conditions than pretty much any batshit progressive idea you can possibly table.

If someone goes to extraordinary lengths to come here to work hard, it seems like me they're exhibiting the proto-American ideal. Not the modern American ideal, which makes laziness a virtue, but the original American ideal. We didn't exactly abide by the law when we told Britain to fuck off. Can't fault someone for wanting to make their lives better through hard work, even if they are illegal immigrants. Only thing I can fault them with is if they become American, if they lift another flag equal or higher than the American flag. That bothers me, but people coming here just to work hard? Nah man. We should at least pay them minimum wage though.

[jediuser598]

Touché.
Is it any different in Daneland?

Very. Or, it's more like a non-issue. Where I currently work, the museum director sits at the same table as the rest of the staff, from cleaning lady, to technicians, archaeologists and historians when we have coffee or lunch break. That's fairly common. There is no calling one's boss "sir" or mister *Last Name*.

If someone decides they want to stick to working in a cleaning job, or work in a supermarket until retirement, sentiment's simply that that person's "found their place", and that as long as they pay taxes, they contribute to society, and someone has to do (the work X) anyway. The idea that a certain job is only for people who "fail" at everything else, is something you'll only really hear from a few (1st generation) ME immigrants, usually those who don't bother working any sort of job. Otoh, the "reverse" of the "manual jobs are not respectable " position, jedi's position, is something most people would roll their eyes at, too.

Professional dedication, knowhow, ability to cooperate, and willingness to invest (time and money) in buying courses and certifications for yourself whatever your job title is, is respected no matter what your job. Not even a lifetime cleaning lady would simply want to stay cleaning assistent forever. Unions provide certficiations for things like cleaning sterile laboratories, museum storage spaces, etc. And unions for engineers provide professional courses, upgrades and certifications for engineers, historians use academic unions, etc. But if they do choose that, the sentiment is more "Huh, that's odd, doesn't she want to make more money, wonder what her reasons are?", than lack of respect. It's considered too private to speculate about, and personal space is also a huge deal, here. We're culturally close to the British in that regard.

I don't disrespect someone who is working hard. I do respect that.

A lawyer out there working his ass off, to the journalist spending their nights working instead of being at home, to the coder putting in those extra hours because he takes pride in his work. Hard work is what I respect. Sure I may give some gentle ribbing for being a desk jockey, sometimes, but I mean no disrespect to desk jockeys. It's all good. If you're working hard, mad respect.

[Smitty-48]

Nobody here was bothering Jedi, he was the one who came on strong and started calling people out, cry me a river. /shrugs

As far as I'm concerned, you provided the initial provocation with "I've done work that would break a man like you." Where'd you see my provocation before that? If I provided one, the only one I could think of would be saying "You'd have a different tune if you were down here with me." Which, is true. People doing the same job tend to have different opinions than people not doing the job. One is sharing a common path with someone when they're working alongside them as compared to when you're not. That's all I meant.

So what's the initial provocation here?

This from me?

Smitty, be honest, you're not on labor's side, most of this board isn't for one reason or another, so talking about improving labor's conditions is like trying to convert Lucifer. You'd have a different opinion if you were here next to me.

Or this from you?

And frankly, I've done plenty of hard jobs, jobs that would break a man like you, make no mistake.

And like I said, if anyone said that to me in real life, they'd better have brought their good work boots, cause we're going to have some fun.

Sounds more like you're just insecure and filled with rage, probably because you're a pathetic loser, but whatever, knock yourself out, Jedi, I find your prattling to be at least mildly amusing.

[K@th]

If someone goes to extraordinary lengths to come here to work hard, it seems like me they're exhibiting the proto-American ideal. Not the modern American ideal, which makes laziness a virtue, but the original American ideal. We didn't exactly abide by the law when we told Britain to fuck off. Can't fault someone for wanting to make their lives better through hard work, even if they are illegal immigrants. Only thing I can fault them with is if they become American, if they lift another flag equal or higher than the American flag. That bothers me, but people coming here just to work hard? Nah man. We should at least pay them minimum wage though.

IOW, you don't believe in a sovereign nation's right to choose who gets to come in to their country? Why have countries at all, then? Is that what you are after? One giant global Kumbaya nation? Sounds totally practical. What could go wrong?

[DBTrek]

No one is stopping you from idolizing janitors and ditch diggers.
Go for it.
In fact, the more you worship them the likelier it is that you’ll have to step into that role before I will, so by all means.

[Speaker to Animals]

Halting illegal immigration (or really mass immigration in general) would do more to improve working conditions than pretty much any batshit progressive idea you can possibly table.

If someone goes to extraordinary lengths to come here to work hard, it seems like me they're exhibiting the proto-American ideal. Not the modern American ideal, which makes laziness a virtue, but the original American ideal. We didn't exactly abide by the law when we told Britain to fuck off. Can't fault someone for wanting to make their lives better through hard work, even if they are illegal immigrants. Only thing I can fault them with is if they become American, if they lift another flag equal or higher than the American flag. That bothers me, but people coming here just to work hard? Nah man. We should at least pay them minimum wage though.

You are your own worst enemy, then.

[jediuser598]

Bjorn, gotta realize though, how America tends to structure their social orders. Most Managers do not eat lunch with the bottom of the ladder. In fact, climbing the ladder will get you segregated from the rest of people, and this is seen as a huge social plus. Most of the time, Managers offices are actually literally above their lower stationed co-workers.

That separation, that space, is one of the key drivers for a lot of people here.

Very. Or, it's more like a non-issue. Where I currently work, the museum director sits at the same table as the rest of the staff, from cleaning lady, to technicians, archaeologists and historians when we have coffee or lunch break. That's fairly common. There is no calling one's boss "sir" or mister *Last Name*.

I'm fascinated in a society where the managers eat at the same table as the cleaning lady. The foremans, sure, but not those above them.

[jediuser598]

Halting illegal immigration (or really mass immigration in general) would do more to improve working conditions than pretty much any batshit progressive idea you can possibly table.

If someone goes to extraordinary lengths to come here to work hard, it seems like me they're exhibiting the proto-American ideal. Not the modern American ideal, which makes laziness a virtue, but the original American ideal. We didn't exactly abide by the law when we told Britain to fuck off. Can't fault someone for wanting to make their lives better through hard work, even if they are illegal immigrants. Only thing I can fault them with is if they become American, if they lift another flag equal or higher than the American flag. That bothers me, but people coming here just to work hard? Nah man. We should at least pay them minimum wage though.

You are your own worst enemy, then.

and?

This country is a country of immigrants. Right now what we have is a group of people squatting on the American ideal, whereas it should be open to people willing to work hard, and take up the flag and participate in the experiment that is America.

[jediuser598]

No one is stopping you from idolizing janitors and ditch diggers.
Go for it.
In fact, the more you worship them the likelier it is that you’ll have to step into that role before I will, so by all means.

Do you work hard? Be honest.

Not do you make a lot of money, or none of that, but do you work hard?