LET'S BAN GUNS!

[The Conservative]

It's an invitation.

You have a nation with 300+ million guns.
Within that nation, you have homicidal maniacs who will use guns to kill people.

Solve the problem.

First of all that's not the problem under discussion. Mass shootings by the mentally ill using high powered (trigger warning) assault rifles is what needs to be discussed.

Sure you will never get all the guns out of America. I've never even suggested that. What you could do though is try to reduce the number of these military style weapons in circulation. You could try to restrict the amount of ammunition it's possible to buy. You could have metal detectors in public places to make it harder to move large arsenals into them. You could restrict access to guns for the mentally ill.
None of these suggestions are going to be foolproof and at the end of the day they will not stop every maniac but every time one of these events happen the response is always "nothing can be done" . I don't believe that nothing can be done, I do believe that many people don't even want to try though.

Bring back asylums.

[DBTrek]

First of all that's not the problem under discussion. Mass shootings by the mentally ill using high powered (trigger warning) assault rifles is what needs to be discussed.

Sure you will never get all the guns out of America. I've never even suggested that. What you could do though is try to reduce the number of these military style weapons in circulation. You could try to restrict the amount of ammunition it's possible to buy. You could have metal detectors in public places to make it harder to move large arsenals into them. You could restrict access to guns for the mentally ill.
None of these suggestions are going to be foolproof and at the end of the day they will not stop every maniac but every time one of these events happen the response is always "nothing can be done" . I don't believe that nothing can be done, I do believe that many people don't even want to try though.

try to reduce the number of these military style weapons in circulation - How?
You could try to restrict the amount of ammunition it's possible to buy - Something they've done in California. Something that failed to stop the San Bernadino massacre.
You could have metal detectors in public places to make it harder to move large arsenals into them - is that realistic? Are you going to hire people to monitor these detectors in public places? Require all businesses to have detectors? Tax the citizens to pay for government detectors everywhere? What?
You could restrict access to guns for the mentally ill - done. That's part of the Gun Control Act of 1968.

. . . and as you say, none of these things will stop a maniac in a nation with 300 million guns. So why continue putting undue burden on the non-maniac gun owners? To what end?

[StCapps]

They have to do "something", or they feel guilty, what that "something" is, they don't care, they want to feel like they are helping, especially when they aren't, it gives them that unearned sense of moral superiority that they crave so much, so they can look down their noses at those who disagree with them. It's all about feelz.

[tue4t]

At the very minimum, we should be having more conversations about mental health, instead of shoving the problem under the rug. No sane person wants to commit mass murder. There have to be signs. If we remove the stigma attached to seeking mental health, it would go a long way.

Hate to be contrarian on this because you do speak to some truth about mental health. However, sane people are very much capable of mass murder. Infact, I think it would be safe to say that horrendous mass murder is almost always committed by the sane. e.g. They reason and plan their actions meticulously.

There's really no reason to believe that the natural state of human beings is peace and love. Rather the opposite. Wasn't too hard for otherwise sane people to guard Auschwitz or man a soviet firing line. No, there's something deeper still than simply irregular mental health.

[apeman]

At the very minimum, we should be having more conversations about mental health, instead of shoving the problem under the rug. No sane person wants to commit mass murder. There have to be signs. If we remove the stigma attached to seeking mental health, it would go a long way.

Hate to be contrarian on this because you do speak to some truth about mental health. However, sane people are very much capable of mass murder. Infact, I think it would be safe to say that horrendous mass murder is almost always committed by the sane. e.g. They reason and plan their actions meticulously.

There's really no reason to believe that the natural state of human beings is peace and love. Rather the opposite. Wasn't too hard for otherwise sane people to guard Auschwitz or man a soviet firing line. No, there's something deeper still than simply irregular mental health.

Good post

[Montegriffo]

They have to do "something", or they feel guilty, what that "something" is, they don't care, they want to feel like they are helping, especially when they aren't, it gives them that unearned sense of moral superiority that they crave so much, so they can look down their noses at those who disagree with them. It's all about feelz.

And your suggestions are?
Oh that's right, you don't see a problem. Just part and parcel of living in the US.

[StCapps]

And your suggestions are?
Oh that's right, you don't see a problem. Just part and parcel of living in the US.

The problem is culture, and gun control won't fix that. You are trying to treat a symptom and not the illness, the problem is with the shooter, not the tools they use to shoot. Targeting the tools doesn't solve the issue, and taking guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens doesn't solve it either.

Try again, the burden of proof is on those asking to abridge the rights of others, it's not on those asking you to not abridge their rights. One question you should ask yourself: "Will the proposed gun control measure achieve the desired result if implemented, without causing even worse side effects?"

If the answer is no, then doing "something" isn't helping anyone, it's just a token measure to help you feel better, regardless of reality.

[Dand]

At the very minimum, we should be having more conversations about mental health, instead of shoving the problem under the rug. No sane person wants to commit mass murder. There have to be signs. If we remove the stigma attached to seeking mental health, it would go a long way.

Barring people that seek mental health help from owning guns would be creating an enormous stigma and disincentive. I hope we can at least start there instead of taking an action that will make people avoid shrinks even more.

[K@th]

At the very minimum, we should be having more conversations about mental health, instead of shoving the problem under the rug. No sane person wants to commit mass murder. There have to be signs. If we remove the stigma attached to seeking mental health, it would go a long way.

Barring people that seek mental health help from owning guns would be creating an enormous stigma and disincentive. I hope we can at least start there instead of taking an action that will make people avoid shrinks even more.

Agree completely. I don't believe everyone with a mental health condition should not have a gun.

Chemical imbalance doesn't prove a violent nature.

[StCapps]

At the very minimum, we should be having more conversations about mental health, instead of shoving the problem under the rug. No sane person wants to commit mass murder. There have to be signs. If we remove the stigma attached to seeking mental health, it would go a long way.

Barring people that seek mental health help from owning guns would be creating an enormous stigma and disincentive. I hope we can at least start there instead of taking an action that will make people avoid shrinks even more.

Agree completely. I don't believe everyone with a mental health condition should not have a gun.

Chemical imbalance doesn't prove a violent nature.

Some folks with mental illnesses should obviously be disqualified from having access to firearms though, so it's a fine line to walk on that one, not sure that I know exactly where to draw that line, but the answer certainly isn't either extreme, all or none, that much is obvious.