Civil War Doomsday Clock

[PartyOf5]

Please don't cherry-pick. The fact that Punisher isn't a trans black person doesn't disqualify anything I stated.

[pineapplemike]

i would disqualify that its an "intentional destruction of a community," because the editor in chief has noted the reaction from the diversity push in recent years and the newer books reflect a commitment to the classic characters. i've heard the current immortal hulk run, featuring straight white male bruce banner as the hulk, is great

i agree that the vocal twitter minority has sway over the corporate world in the comicbook market just as they do in others but your silliness about mass extinction and intentional destruction is disqualifying

[PartyOf5]

marvel has already reversed most of those changes in response to sales, as they so often do, adding the best stuff to the status quo and disregarding the less popular stuff. hulk, thor, and iron man are all back to their established roles, and the new diversity characters are featured in books targeted towards a younger audience. you can't blame them, they're trying to appeal beyond their established straight white male fanbase, which shrinks with every passing year. it's nothing personal, it's just business. of course the fickle nerd fanbase complained, as they so often do, and took it personally, but it's not like marvel wasn't putting out solid books even at the height of their SJW efforts. punisher: the platoon http://readallcomics.com/punisher-the-platoon-001-2017/ was great, lemire's moon knight http://readallcomics.com/moon-knightt-v ... -001-2016/ was great

I wanted to respond more directly to some of this.

They reversed a lot of it because the community rejected it. That doesn't mean the attempt should be ignored or dismissed as no big deal. This is war to them. As you said, they have moved on to the next battle, which is marketing their brand of diversity to kids. Just like the schools market the SJW message to kids.

Yes, I can blame them. The mass eradication of decades long established characters was not an attempt to appeal to a wider audience. They may be using that message now with their current plan of marketing the diversity to others, but they have do not care at all for the existing community. When their diversity is rejected they call their customers bigots for not wanting their SJW propaganda. The established fanbase, which is mostly white males is shrinking because DC and Marvel have been failing for years to gain new readers of any demographic. It's not because they didn't have enough diversity in their comics.

There will always be some great comics. Again, that does not change the fact that a growing percentage of the creators want to tear down the existing community and replace it with their diversity vision.

[PartyOf5]

i would disqualify that its an "intentional destruction of a community," because the editor in chief has noted the reaction from the diversity push in recent years and the newer books reflect a commitment to the classic characters. i've heard the current immortal hulk run, featuring straight white male bruce banner as the hulk, is great

i agree that the vocal twitter minority has sway over the corporate world in the comicbook market just as they do in others but your silliness about mass extinction and intentional destruction is disqualifying

The creators themselves admit to it. They are not some twitter minority, they are the ones creating the books. That they failed does not disqualify it as if it never happened. Would you "disqualify" the Nazis attempt to eradicate the Jews because they were defeated? They were overwhelmingly rejected, forced to bring back a lot of the classic characters, and cancel a number of the diverse series due to lack of sales.

[pineapplemike]

i agree with a lot of what you say but you make a lot of assertions about the motivations of lots of people, and in response to direct quotes to the contrary you admit "well, they may say that but what they really want is..."

yeah yeah, you arent telling me anything unique about the comicbook market that couldnt be said about any other market where SJWs have undue influence

intentional destruction, lol

post up some clips or tweets of comic creators and editors supporting your point, i'm always open to new information

[PartyOf5]

i agree with a lot of what you say but you make a lot of assertions about the motivations of lots of people, and in response to direct quotes to the contrary you admit "well, they may say that but what they really want is..."

Not sure what you're talking about here.

[Hastur]

F-ing Garth Ennis. He knows gore like no one else. Please never change.

[PartyOf5]

i agree with a lot of what you say but you make a lot of assertions about the motivations of lots of people, and in response to direct quotes to the contrary you admit "well, they may say that but what they really want is..."

Not sure what you're talking about here.

I'm not sure what contrary quotes you are talking about, but here is one quote from a Marvel writer that backs up my point.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2017/12/ ... n-twitter/
Kurt Busiek:

There are times I think Marvel should just have the Shaper of Worlds or someone wave his hands and render the classic characters more diverse.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

People said the exact same thing about the Todd McFarlane-ization of every damn comic book in the 90s/early 00s. They ran their experiment according to the taste of the time, some people liked it, lots of people hated it, it eventually snapped back when the fad passed, and is now mocked. It is always the end of the damn world until it isn't.

This is not like Image comics in the 90s. That was a true expansion, creating a new company with new characters. This is a hostile takeover.

You are right. That was much worse. It wasn't just the creation of Image. The success of Image had other IPs turning all dark n' gritty, left and right. It had every hero turning anti-hero.

I would argue that that dramatically changes these characters in a much more meaningful way than making them broads or homos or something.

Spiderman went from being a skinny, quip-y nerd to being yoked-as-fuck with, basically, chain-webs. (Presumably because McFarlane is into rough trade.) That is a way more drastic change than just making him Puerto Rican.

Or, another example, take a look at the DC/Snyder-verse Superman, who seemed totally unconcerned with collateral damage. That changes Superman way more than replacing him with a tranny-Jew that still acts like Superman would. People complained, which is fine, but nobody was tearing out their hair over the intentional destruction of their community over it, because that is crazy as hell.

There seems to be only one, single vector of change that you care about, and that is ridiculous.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Shit, I forgot my favorite example: Spawn/Batman, which I thought was bad-ass when I was a dumb fucking teenager.

Pretty godamn far from a CSI gumshoe in blue and grey tights. Didn't destroy the community of Batman fandom, though.