Where's an Environmentalist when you need one

[JohnDonne]

It's much easier to argue against straw men. It might be part of the vegan religion.

You snipe from the peanut gallery but having been outclassed on this subject in previous arguments you haven’t changed your opinions, that is the real sign of an ideological slave.

[Speaker to Animals]

You have claimed in the past that animals cannot reason and therefore it’s ok to use them for our needs, therefore you are implicitly saying they are inferior as beings of moral consideration. Never mind that animals display practical reasoning skills on a near-constant basis, it’s almost incredible that one could claim otherwise.
No projection there, unless it’s me rolling back the clip in slow motion for the win.

Maybe you have a new rationalization for abusing animals. Oh, I see, we’re all animals now, cool, that makes sense, we part of nature and shiet. Oh wait, we have laws against murder, and animal welfare laws in the books already, guess humans as animals doesn’t mean ethics doesn’t apply after all. Why would it anyway, even from a purely evolutionary perspective? Ethics exists in evolution because it emerged from the process of evolution. You can’t escape it by claiming you’re just a primate.

You say lions eat meat, so? You think I like it? But Im not here to reason with a lion, they don’t have your wealth of options or your circumstance, and it’s that which dictates the ethics of any given action. I’m saying you, in your circumstance and people like you have not much in the way of an excuse to kill things that feel subjectively. You do it mainly for the feels, so you are in essence feeding off the suffering of other creatures without necessity.

Don’t give me the same old lies about veganism not working nutritionally, absolute discredited bullshit, watch vegan gains if you’re a skeptic, or look at vegan boxers and vegan mma fighters. Don’t be a meat bitch, better yourself brah.

This is a lie followed by dramatic nonsense.

Of course animals cannot reason. It does not follow from their lack of reason that it is okay to eat them. We eat them because we are animals too and that is our fucking diet. I would agree that we ought not eat the animals that are at the pre-sapient stage, such as chimps and dolphins. The reason sapience matters is that your capacity to experience pain is amplified by self-awareness. A conscious, self-aware human being possesses an *I* that can suffer. This is why we do not necessarily give anesthesia to newborns (they are not self-aware).

Then you lie again by claiming I said, because we eat animals, they are beneath moral consideration. I said no such thing. You really are a fucking lying little vegan shit.

As far as veganism not being nutritional.. dude, the evidence is fucking everywhere! You are supposed to eat a human diet. Vegans have the worse possible diet that is out there. You are less healthy than the people who eat nothing but processed fast foods all the time. They are healthier than you!

How fucking retarded does a group of people have to be to turn their diet into a religion anyway?

So much vague gobbledygook, appeal to nature fallacies and so forth.

You appeal to nature in citing the “human diet.” You violate your own fallacious appeal by making exceptions for “pre-sapient” creatures, (whatever that means, lol) implying that sapience is the determining factor in ethics, which as I recall is what I said was your position. So I’m not a liar, after all, you’re just too silly to know your own argument.

Claiming that there’s a human diet that is the true natural one is quite funny, given the diversity of the human menu, (which in some parts includes other humans btw).

The evidence for veganism being an extremely healthy option for humans is overwhelming, one would have to go digging far from the medical and nutritional consensus to find evidence otherwise.

How does refraining from eating pre-sapient creatures violate our being omnivores? Omnivore doesn't mean monkey-eater, you know. I think you need to go eat some protein for your B12 deficiency. Your rational faculty is faulty.

Go watch the video in the Truth About Veganism thread for about twenty minutes of examples of how fucking horrible that diet is on your body and mind.

[Hastur]

It's much easier to argue against straw men. It might be part of the vegan religion.

You snipe from the peanut gallery but having been outclassed on this subject in previous arguments you haven’t changed your opinions, that is the real sign of an ideological slave.

You must confuse me with someone else.

[PartyOf5]

That is the principle you invoke when you use the food chain hierarchy as your rationalization for abusing and killing animals.

I don't abuse animals. The killing part is necessary in order to eat them.

Pointing out the fact that we are the dominant species does not invoke some imagined "might makes right" principle about abuse that you have. Being dominant gives us the ability to kill other animals for food. There's no right or wrong in it, killing animals for food is part of life.

[PartyOf5]

Hastur, you are an ideological slave because you didn't change your mind and agree with JD.

JD either needs meat in his diet or better meds.

[JohnDonne]

This is a lie followed by dramatic nonsense.

Of course animals cannot reason. It does not follow from their lack of reason that it is okay to eat them. We eat them because we are animals too and that is our fucking diet. I would agree that we ought not eat the animals that are at the pre-sapient stage, such as chimps and dolphins. The reason sapience matters is that your capacity to experience pain is amplified by self-awareness. A conscious, self-aware human being possesses an *I* that can suffer. This is why we do not necessarily give anesthesia to newborns (they are not self-aware).

Then you lie again by claiming I said, because we eat animals, they are beneath moral consideration. I said no such thing. You really are a fucking lying little vegan shit.

As far as veganism not being nutritional.. dude, the evidence is fucking everywhere! You are supposed to eat a human diet. Vegans have the worse possible diet that is out there. You are less healthy than the people who eat nothing but processed fast foods all the time. They are healthier than you!

How fucking retarded does a group of people have to be to turn their diet into a religion anyway?

So much vague gobbledygook, appeal to nature fallacies and so forth.

You appeal to nature in citing the “human diet.” You violate your own fallacious appeal by making exceptions for “pre-sapient” creatures, (whatever that means, lol) implying that sapience is the determining factor in ethics, which as I recall is what I said was your position. So I’m not a liar, after all, you’re just too silly to know your own argument.

Claiming that there’s a human diet that is the true natural one is quite funny, given the diversity of the human menu, (which in some parts includes other humans btw).

The evidence for veganism being an extremely healthy option for humans is overwhelming, one would have to go digging far from the medical and nutritional consensus to find evidence otherwise.

How does refraining from eating pre-sapient creatures violate our being omnivores? Omnivore doesn't mean monkey-eater, you know. I think you need to go eat some protein for your B12 deficiency. Your rational faculty is faulty.

Go watch the video in the Truth About Veganism thread for about twenty minutes of examples of how fucking horrible that diet is on your body and mind.

Either it’s justified for humans to eat animals because we’re animals that are omnivores, or that is not sufficient justification.

You have implied one thing and then the other, but they can’t both be true.

It seems in citing the monkeys and dolphins as exceptions you have admitted that if an animal can feel subjectively it isn’t right to hurt them.

It seems like cows feel subjectively. Rebuttal?

You seem to be forgetting the stuff you wrote. Maybe the animal fat in your arteries is cutting off the blood supply to your brain. Better go eat some lettuce.

[Hastur]

Hastur, you are an ideological slave because you didn't change your mind and agree with JD.

JD either needs meat in his diet or better meds.

I guess he’s still pissed of that I called him ideologically possessed once long ago. He still is by the looks of things. No point in debating him. He is prepared to genocide millions of farm animals to prove some made up ethical point.

[Fife]

I need to hear from either Antisexualist or Antisexualist-2 on this critically important moral debate.

I've got venison thawed out and ready to go, and 2 dozen oysters. I need some quick info here.

[JohnDonne]

That is the principle you invoke when you use the food chain hierarchy as your rationalization for abusing and killing animals.

I don't abuse animals. The killing part is necessary in order to eat them.

Pointing out the fact that we are the dominant species does not invoke some imagined "might makes right" principle about abuse that you have. Being dominant gives us the ability to kill other animals for food. There's no right or wrong in it, killing animals for food is part of life.

You’re spouting deepities. Deepities are thought paralyzing sayings that depend on two conflicting interpretations to seem profound.

One interpretation is always true but banal, the other is always profound but false.

For example:
In a literal sense the sentence “killing animals for food is a part of life” is a true statement. Yes, within the world animals are routinely slaughtered. However, this is so obvious as to be banal.

In another, deeper sense,the statement could mean that nature does not comment on ethics, it merely exists, humans and animals are a part of nature, therefore humans killing animals is ethically fine. That would be mind-blowing, but wait, it’s obviously untrue. Humans make ethical judgments and decisions all the time, and killing animals for sheer taste is obviously a subject fraught with ethical concerns about man’s relationship to other creatures that can experience subjectively.

[JohnDonne]

Hastur, you are an ideological slave because you didn't change your mind and agree with JD.

JD either needs meat in his diet or better meds.

I guess he’s still pissed of that I called him ideologically possessed once long ago. He still is by the looks of things. No point in debating him. He is prepared to genocide millions of farm animals to prove some made up ethical point.

Hastur has always been very concerned about the farm animals right to be bred as slaves.