Daniel Shaver shooting

[Otern]

No dude. A lot of this shit we talk about cops doing would get a soldier court marshaled. This is why veterans for the most part tend to be quite skeptical of the police in America. We are not, as a group, fans.

Well, if soldiers in a war zone are subject to discipline for their actions, then that means cops, who are in an exponentially safer domestic situation should be held to even higher standards. That video is pretty repulsive. Why was he ordering the man to crawl?

You realize that the US cops use hollow point rounds and those rounds have been deemed inhumane by the Geneva Convention for warfare.

It is easier to kill you than an enemy combatant in war.

Hague convention.

[SuburbanFarmer]

You realize that the US cops use hollow point rounds and those rounds have been deemed inhumane by the Geneva Convention for warfare.

It is easier to kill you than an enemy combatant in war.

Well, I'm not particularly hard to kill anyways. I don't own a gun, and I only got a yellow belt in Tae Kwon Do.

I am quite disturbed by the militarization of police. Towns with 10,000 people or less often have armored personel carriers and old pentagon tech. Lakeland FL is an example of this. Quite a lot of ISIS activity there I'm sure. We should give these cops tow missiles too just to be safe. Oops we didn't type the warrant out right and flattened the wrong house. Years ago, cops in Phoenix burned down an entire apartment complex when they threw a flashbang grenade in for a no knock drug raid.

The militarization of police is problematic, but it doesn't bother me. Frankly, if we should need to revolt against a heavy handed government it's a good thing, because most all that shit is going to end up in the hands of the rebels.

The immediate big problem is rules of engagement and the SOP that LEO lives are more important than average citizens.

This is like arguing that ISIS has an advantage because they were attacked by superior tech.

[C-Mag]

Well, if soldiers in a war zone are subject to discipline for their actions, then that means cops, who are in an exponentially safer domestic situation should be held to even higher standards. That video is pretty repulsive. Why was he ordering the man to crawl?

You realize that the US cops use hollow point rounds and those rounds have been deemed inhumane by the Geneva Convention for warfare.

It is easier to kill you than an enemy combatant in war.

Hague convention.

+1

[clubgop]

There’s a pretty big difference between sitting in a hallway for 30 minutes durin an active shooting, and blasting a teenager in the face for not crawling correctly.

The fact that anyone needs to explain this to you speaks volumes.

A gun is a gun and you don't know the difference. And you want someone else to get the bad men and rob me and others of our right to defend ourselves making us slaves to these police. The fact that you didn't want this kid shot but are totally ok with him crawling on his hands and knees because OMG gun speak volumes about your desire for centralized power cause Freedom is hard. ARMY beat Navy and won the Commander in chief trophy so I am right about everything, you can't even make the playoffs in fantasy.

Wow, you are really going for Wrong now, aren’t ya. Cheap troll is cheap.

If I was going for wrong I would consult you. BBQ sauce, tomato sauce. You just never stop. Like this post, a cheap troll is cheap because he is right, right but cheap. If my commitment to the truth makes me cheap then so be it. But I got you pegged. You murdered this dude as much as the cop did your lust for government heroism did this. For once in your miserable life accept responsibility.

[tue4t]

I think he might have been trying to pull his pants up or something, but when he is crawling, and then out of the blue, he reaches for the belt, exactly like a draw, second time after being warned, can't say I wouldn't have shot him right there too.

First time looked to me like the guy had watched too many movies. You know how the perp will have their hands behind their back handcuffed? I think he was over complying so to speak. Conveying submission by doing things that had not yet been requested. "Please handcuff me" in body language. Hence the subsequent crying and blubbering. A I'm trying to comply, why are you being so mean to me I don't understand sort of thing.

The second time was definitely pulling up pants.

I didn't realise before how super dangerous that actually looks from the cops perspective. Not trained or experienced in any of this kind of stuff, but my thought was why they hadn't attempted to control and disarm him faster? Why get him to crawl/move at all? Wouldn't the longer you leave the conflict elevated, the higher the risk of something unexpectedly bad happening through random probability? Or is it better to take things very slow and methodical like this from a stationary position?

[Smitty-48]

I think he might have been trying to pull his pants up or something, but when he is crawling, and then out of the blue, he reaches for the belt, exactly like a draw, second time after being warned, can't say I wouldn't have shot him right there too.

First time looked to me like the guy had watched too many movies. You know how the perp will have their hands behind their back handcuffed? I think he was over complying so to speak. Conveying submission by doing things that had not yet been requested. "Please handcuff me" in body language. Hence the subsequent crying and blubbering. A I'm trying to comply, why are you being so mean to me I don't understand sort of thing.

The second time was definitely pulling up pants.

I didn't realise before how super dangerous that actually looks from the cops perspective. Not trained or experienced in any of this kind of stuff, but my thought was why they hadn't attempted to control and disarm him faster? Why get him to crawl/move at all? Wouldn't the longer you leave the conflict elevated, the higher the risk of something unexpectedly bad happening through random probability? Or is it better to take things very slow and methodical like this from a stationary position?

I honestly don't know what they teach them in Arizona, I can't say definitively why he wanted them to move, but in a general sense, tactically, if you view that guy as an armed and dangerous threat, a mad sniper in the bell tower scenario, that would include; concealed weapons, that would include trying to fake you out by play acting in order to get you to let your guard down, and it would also include that hallway being a kill zone if there are more than one persons involved.

So say you go down the hallway, and when you go to put the cuffs on him, somebody else pops around that corner and blows you and your partner away. Say you let your guard down at "please, please don't kill me", and then he pulls a gun and shoots you. If you think you're walking into a mass shooter type threat, plausibly multiple assailants, you have to be on guard for tricks, traps and ambushes.

They weren't called to the hotel for a noise complaint, they were called to the hotel to respond to a sniper in the bell tower, possible mass shooter. They don't know who Daniel Shaver is, but their mindset going in, is that it could be Charles Whitman.

[Speaker to Animals]

Yeah, well, if you are that much of a coward, please stay out of American law enforcement. We have too many power-tripping cowards as it is. Not that I think this cunt killed an innocent man because he genuinely felt fear. I think he planned to kill that Daniel Shaver and Daniel Shaver was fucked no matter what he did (hence the bizarre commands such as "cross your legs and crawl to me on your knees with your hands in the air"). Those commands were capricious and given with the intent that Daniel Shaver would fail and Officer Simon Says would then murder him. The prosecutor was right to bring murder charges against this psychopath and everybody here knows that little cunt deserves death absent a functioning justice system.

[Smitty-48]

When you do defensive tactics training, they do hit you with all these scenarios, the "please don't kill me" and then pulls a gun, and the one guys distracts you while his accomplice sets up for an ambush, and they have real world events to show you, where cops have been killed that way, particularly in the USA, because it does happen.

[Speaker to Animals]

Is that seriously the society we live in? Somebody needs to call the police and say "he might have a scary gun" and your life is forfeit, and the murderer will walk free with a pat on the back from the likes of Smitty?

[Speaker to Animals]

When you do defensive tactics training, they do hit you with all these scenarios, the "please don't kill me" and then pulls a gun, and the one guys distracts you while his accomplice sets up for an ambush, and they have real world events to show you, where cops have been killed that way, particularly in the USA, because it does happen.

Who's life is more important? If the cop's life is so important that innocent Americans have to die "just in case", then we are at war. Cops who kill innocent people and walk because the government fails to maintain equality before the law deserve to get popped on the street. What other recourse is there for this shit?

The moment Officer Simon Says got extra-judicial rights to execute innocent Americans for vague feelings of threat which any reasonable person can plainly see did not exist, we entered vigilante justice territory. If you deny people justice they will just take it into their own hands -- for good reason.