Dear Democrats: Yes, You Really Do Hate America…

Smitty-48
Posts: 36399
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Dear Democrats: Yes, You Really Do Hate America…

Post by Smitty-48 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:35 pm

But who says the Democrats want a deal? DACA being an ongoing irritant favours them, not the GOP, if somebody is going to be the bad guys, it will be the GOP, if there is no deal, the Democrats will keep their base fired up about it, if the GOP deports them, it will be a spectacle that only gets the Democrats base even more fired up.
Nec Aspera Terrent

Okeefenokee
Posts: 12950
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:27 pm
Location: The Great Place

Re: Dear Democrats: Yes, You Really Do Hate America…

Post by Okeefenokee » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:39 pm

Smitty-48 wrote:But who says the Democrats want a deal? DACA being an ongoing irritant favours them, not the GOP, if somebody is going to be the bad guys, it will be the GOP, if there is no deal, the Democrats will keep their base fired up about it.
He put that ball in their court weeks ago.

Not in his hands anymore.

Congress fails to do anything?

That's on them.

They'd have to pass something for him to sign for it be on him again, and it ain't gonna happen.

No one in congress wants to fix it. There won't be any bill, and that ain't gonna touch him.
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

viewtopic.php?p=60751#p60751

Smitty-48
Posts: 36399
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Dear Democrats: Yes, You Really Do Hate America…

Post by Smitty-48 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:41 pm

The deal would have been the win for Trump, he gets to be the good guy all around, he got the Wall funded, and the DACA thing is no longer an irritant for the Democrats to exploit, the GOP in congress came in and basically let the Democrats off the hook, without getting Trump the deal that Trump had promised.

No deal is Trump's fault, Dreamer deportation is Trump's fault, no wall funding is Trump's fault, he didn't get anything done, again, meanwhile, the GOP in congress got rid of the medical device tax, which the Democrats needed to get rid of, to prop Obamacare up and give their medical device donors what they wanted.

Congress doesn't pay a price on anything, they are all off the hook, and Trump didn't get what he promised he was going to get, DACA Deal for Wall Funding, and the GOP in congress are the ones who made it all happen, when they let the Democrats slide.
Nec Aspera Terrent

User avatar
Hanarchy Montanarchy
Posts: 5991
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:54 am

Re: Dear Democrats: Yes, You Really Do Hate America…

Post by Hanarchy Montanarchy » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:55 am

Yeah, getting Wall funding for DACA would have been such a godamn slam dunk for Trump. Would have really made him look like the genius, not-racist deal maker he has been claiming to be. Getting Wall makes all the mockery of the 'wall's never happening' people look foolish. Shows compassion to the 'dreamers' which makes him look great. AND, deal-making, his whole bag.

I read an article somewheres saying that Trump was ITCHING to make that deal, but his staff functionally sequestered him to keep it from happening. Don't know how true that is, but shit.... seems like a golden opportunity squandered.

Frankly, I don't know why the Dems weren't chomping at the bit for the same deal. They can strut around on saving DACA, and show people that they too care about border security, or jobs, or whatever with the Wall compromise...however they want to spin it.
HAIL!

Her needs America so they won't just take his shit away like in some pussy non gun totting countries can happen.
-Hwen

Smitty-48
Posts: 36399
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Dear Democrats: Yes, You Really Do Hate America…

Post by Smitty-48 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:16 am

Hanarchy Montanarchy wrote: Frankly, I don't know why the Dems weren't chomping at the bit for the same deal. They can strut around on saving DACA, and show people that they too care about border security, or jobs, or whatever with the Wall compromise...however they want to spin it.
Because it's all about making the other side out to be villains who are a menace to your base, if the Dems make the DACA Wall deal with Trump, then who needs the Dems? The Dems are trying to make the case that Trump is a disaster and the electorate needs to reinstall the Dems to stop him, if they make a deal with the Devil and everything is hunky dory, that undermines their whole argument.

You have to sabotage the deals, but make it out to be the other sides fault, if the GOP in congress had forced the wall issue with the Dems when the Dems were down on the mat, then they would have to either make the deal, or be caught sabotaging it.

But by failing to do so and simply "extracting" the medical device tax, something the Dems wanted out of anyways, as the supposed price of getting things back on the rails, the GOP in congress helped the Democrats out of the trap instead of pinning their wings, which means the GOP in congress are also out to sabotage any deals with Trump as well, they don't want him to be the hero anymore than the Dems do.
Last edited by Smitty-48 on Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nec Aspera Terrent

User avatar
Hanarchy Montanarchy
Posts: 5991
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:54 am

Re: Dear Democrats: Yes, You Really Do Hate America…

Post by Hanarchy Montanarchy » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:25 am

Smitty-48 wrote:
Hanarchy Montanarchy wrote: Frankly, I don't know why the Dems weren't chomping at the bit for the same deal. They can strut around on saving DACA, and show people that they too care about border security, or jobs, or whatever with the Wall compromise...however they want to spin it.
Because it's all about making the other side out to be villains who are a menace to your base, if the Dems make the DACA Wall deal with Trump, then who needs the Dems? The Dems are trying to make the case that Trump is a disaster and the electorate needs to reinstall the Dems to stop him, if they make a deal with the Devil and everything is hunky dory, that undermines their whole argument.
Oh, right.

I forgot for a second that sensibly doing one's elected duty it is way down the list of priorities. :oops:
HAIL!

Her needs America so they won't just take his shit away like in some pussy non gun totting countries can happen.
-Hwen

Smitty-48
Posts: 36399
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Dear Democrats: Yes, You Really Do Hate America…

Post by Smitty-48 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:35 am

It's not a normal situation where the President's popularity automatically translates into downstream votes for the party, Trump's base likes Trump, they don't actually like Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and those guys, so it's not necessarily in those guy's interests for Trump to succeed on a big deal before the midterms.

Trump can win and they can lose, and Trump can lose and they can win, so there's three teams here, Trump, the GOP in congress, and the Democrats in congress, and the GOP in congress seems like they aren't so interested in Trump getting things done, unless it's what they want too, but if it's not what they want, they are perfectly happy to play along with the Democrats to sabotage him.

And that is what they just did, they helped the Democrats blow up the DACA Wall deal, and they all gave each other political cover therein, it wasn't their deal that failed, it was Trump's deal.

The GOP in congress were positioned to pin the Democrats and force them to capitulate to Trump's deal, then suddenly, instead of that, they not only let the Democrats off the mat, but what they supposedly extracted from the Democrats as the price for that, is something that they all wanted, which was to prop up Obamacare while making the medical device manufacturers happy.

The GOP in congress are not onside with Trump, they just have to make sure they have political cover when they are sabotaging him, so it's quid pro quo, the Democrats help them with that, and they help the Democrats with their Trump problems, because Trump is a problem for all of them in the end.

You see all the Trumptards taking the bait, saying they won, they won, they forced the Democrats to back down and they got something out of them, but in reality, congress won, congress got what it wanted, but at Trump's expense and not theirs, it was a joint GOP-Democrat anti-Trump operation.

I thought this would go the way it was supposed to go, the Democrats would get DACA and the GOP would get their wall, win-win, except, it's pretty clear that win-win for Trump is not what either side in congress wants, so they are working together to slow walk him, make sure he doesn't get any big wins, other than on things they all wanted anyways, things the donor classes on both sides want.
Nec Aspera Terrent

K@th
Posts: 3513
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:39 am

Re: Dear Democrats: Yes, You Really Do Hate America…

Post by K@th » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:05 am

Smitty-48 wrote:

The GOP in congress are not onside with Trump
That definitely appears to be the case.
Account abandoned.

User avatar
DrYouth
Posts: 4050
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: Canadastan

Re: Dear Democrats: Yes, You Really Do Hate America…

Post by DrYouth » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:52 am

Is it a bad sign that the government shuts down once a year in this kind of brinksmanship?

Or is it sort of a tradition now?
Deep down tho, I still thirst to kill you and eat you. Ultra Chimp can't help it.. - Smitty

User avatar
Hastur
Posts: 5297
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:43 am
Location: suiþiuþu

Re: Dear Democrats: Yes, You Really Do Hate America…

Post by Hastur » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:43 am

DrYouth wrote:Is it a bad sign that the government shuts down once a year in this kind of brinksmanship?

Or is it sort of a tradition now?
It reminds me of a small child that refuses to eat. Not because it's not hungry or don't like the food but just to experiment with exercising power. They sometimes do the same when refusing to go to bed or put on shoes to go somewhere or to take a bath. They have identified a possibility to make everyone else stop and wait for them to do their thing. It usually happens when the parent is stressed and want to move on to the next thing. The toddler identifies the need to hurry and promptly decided that this is a good time to experiment with interpersonal power structures.
As a parent it's important to identify what is going on and not get angry and forcefull. Turn it into an exercise in negotiation and both parties will get something useful out of it. You might end up being five minutes late for something but that's not the end of the world.
Image

An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur? - Axel Oxenstierna

Nie lügen die Menschen so viel wie nach einer Jagd, während eines Krieges oder vor Wahlen. - Otto von Bismarck