Current US Military

[Smitty-48]

Still . .. all the criticisms of the US army have a little bit of that "bench warmer" vibe when coming from Canada. As in . . . at least our military still operates.

Anyone can Monday morning quarterback from the sidelines.
Iceland's army could do that.

I don't see it as a competition, you can say whatever you want about the Canadian Army, whatevs, knock yourself out

When I joined the Canadian Army, we were still modelled on the Canadian Army from the Korean War, and we were better than the Americans, we were better trained, more proficient, better in garrison, better in the field, but mostly because we were hand picking an elite force of 25,000 troops, whereas they had to fill 2,000,000 slots.

Nowadays, the Canadian Army is just as small as it was back then, but it's no longer more elite than the Americans, the Canadian Army now is modelled on the Americans, so the training and level proficiency is basically exactly the same, I'd give the edge to the Americans now actually, the Canadian Army of yore is no more, it's not above the rest anymore, it's the same as everybody else.

Everything's been standardized now, to the lower standard, all of NATO trains exactly the same now, the troops are interchangeable, and it's all modelled on the Pentagon.

[Xenophon]

Well you're talkin' about the "good ol' Army"? Which one was that? Was that Bill Calley's Army, or was that Tim McVeigh's Army?

Was never all that good, the US Army has to filla lotta slots, there's always been a ton o' kooks in the ranks. I would submit, there's actually less now than there's ever been, and the one's now ain't nearly as crazy as the "good ol'" ones.

The Army of Northern Virginia.

[DBTrek]

Stanley McChrystal upended the standardized Pentagon model to fight AQ in Iraq. So there are still innovations coming from the US armed forces.

[Smitty-48]

Well you're talkin' about the "good ol' Army"? Which one was that? Was that Bill Calley's Army, or was that Tim McVeigh's Army?

Was never all that good, the US Army has to filla lotta slots, there's always been a ton o' kooks in the ranks. I would submit, there's actually less now than there's ever been, and the one's now ain't nearly as crazy as the "good ol'" ones.

The Army of Northern Virginia.

They made huge mistakes, but they were fine so long as all they were facing was George McCellan, George McClellan was the Norman Schwarzkopf of the Civil War, but once Uncle Billy & Co took over, the AONV was crushed like a bug.

[Smitty-48]

Stanley McChrystal upended the standardized Pentagon model to fight AQ in Iraq. So there are still innovations coming from the US armed forces.

Not really, Creighton Abrams had the exact same program, it was called the Pheonix Program, and it worked the same way, but still wasn't enough, didn't work in Vietnam, same as it didn't work in Afghanistan neither, and really, didn't even actually kill the Baathists off in Iraq.

[DBTrek]

Stanley McChrystal upended the standardized Pentagon model to fight AQ in Iraq. So there are still innovations coming from the US armed forces.

Not really, Creighton Abrams had the exact same program, it was called the Pheonix Program, and it worked the same way, but still wasn't enough, didn't work in Vietnam, same as it didn't work in Afghanistan neither, and really, didn't even actually kill the Baathists off in Iraq.

You may want to browse a copy of Team of Teams once you're done with your Vietnam kick. I think you'll find your current assessment lacking.

[Smitty-48]

Meh, McChrystal, I like his style, cause he likes to party, and he takes care of his boys, but if you're making him out to be better than Creighton Abrams? Or Charlie Beckwith? Nah, dude, you're drinking the kool-aid there.

[DBTrek]

Well, one of us has read the book on what he's actually done, and the other hasn't.
So . . . not much of a conversation to have there.
Just the informed vs the uninformed, let the people decide.

[Smitty-48]

The closest thing the US Army had to Charlie Beckwith in the GWOT, was Major Jim Gant, he was a Beckwith, but he was too good at it, he was making the brass look bad, and he didn't play by the rules, so they went after him and drummed him out of the army, none the less, they didn't call him the "Lawrence of Arabia of Afghanistan" for nothing. Mind you, the British Army brass went after T.E. Lawrence in the same way for the same reasons.

[Smitty-48]

Well, one of us has read the book on what he's actually done, and the other hasn't.
So . . . not much of a conversation to have there.
Just the informed vs the uninformed, let the people decide.

Whatevs, I don't need to read his book, I alread know McChrystal's spiel; meh. I like McCrystal mind you, but it's not about his spiel, like I said, he likes to party, and he takes his boys along for the party, that's my kind of General, but he's no Charlie Beckwith, he's no Creighton Abrams, and in the end, if Charlie and Creighton couldn't fix it, nobody can.