Free College in San Francisco

[Xenophon]

Wait, hol up! Only 5 post mocking little Miss Prim and Proper spelling college wrong in the god damn title of the thread? Tsk tsk, I am disappointed in the civility of this board.

The a isn't even close enough to the e for it to be fat finger.

Elephantiasis is a heck of a disease.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

I don't know guys... this whole concept that people should do what is valuable to society rather than what they find personally gratifying sounds really... what is the word... COLLECTIVIST!!!

[clubgop]

A healthy, civilized society needs more than engineers, scientists and doctors. It needs to be able to reflect upon itself. Freely. No matter in which way.

Arts and non-technical education is a valuable piece of a society. The problem we're seeing in the US is that too many kids are going into college for degrees in things that do not have many jobs, but they come out of college with a degree and feel that they are automatically owed a high paying job of their choice because of it.

I disagree with STA that there are not enough jobs. There are shortages in jobs like welding, but schools aren't directing kids down those paths. What we have right now are too many kids with degrees that are not needed by our economy. But they feel entitled (I think that is a fitting word) to something the economy/society has determined is not needed. I don't mean that arts aren't need at all, but we don't need as many of them as are getting degrees. The result are events like OWS and BLM where all these unemployed or under employed people with grievances against the rest of society get together and tantrum because they don't want the hard, thankless jobs that are necessary to a society.

Stop trying to fuck over the welders. They make a good wage because people think welding is below them, leaving welders in demand. They got a good thing going, same as most other trades.

I swear, it's like I'm the only one that gets this. The only reason tradesmen can support their families is because they aren't ashamed to do jobs that the rest of society consider to be beneath them. They aren't so full of themselves that they won't work with their hands, and as a result, they do far better than these unemployed liberal arts majors.

If you convince these drama queens that being a tradesmen is respectable and trendy, they are going to flood the labor pool and fuck over all the existing tradesmen by driving down the price of labor.

We want three tiers in the workforce. STEM, Tradesmen, Baristas. STEM people do STEM things, and get paid well. When something breaks, STEM people call Tradesmen to fix it, and pay them well for being noble and honorable working men. Baristas languish under college loan debt, rightly so, and stupidly give their money to STEM people for the next new iPhone, instead of going back to school, because gosh darnit, this acting career is gonna take off any day now. The rest of their Barista money goes to their parents to rent out the basement, who then give it to the Tradesmen when something breaks.

Stop trying to fuck this up. This is the way it should be.

If it wasnt for pharmacy school, I'd be a barista and you are exactly right about that. Know this guy in high school he was dumber than a box of rocks but a good solid dude, he's a plumber, and he has to be a millionaire, I am not fully appraised of his situation but while I was getting blitzed on keggers having the most kinetic but unimpressive dispassionate meaningless sex of my life, he was on the job, everyday all day, saving money, establishing good credit. Now he has a truck with his name on it and an llc where he employs 2 or 3 other guys with trucks and his name on those too. If it wasnt for the Army and someone slapping me practically enslaving me to go to pharmacy school I would be a 100k in debt barista, I know it.

[PartyOf5]

I don't know guys... this whole concept that people should do what is valuable to society rather than what they find personally gratifying sounds really... what is the word... COLLECTIVIST!!!

I have no problem with them doing what they find personally gratifying. The problem I have is those same people then bitch and moan about their school debt and how they should have a 6 figure job right out of school. When they can't get that they want their debt paid off for them and for those with jobs to subsidize them.

[clubgop]

I don't know guys... this whole concept that people should do what is valuable to society rather than what they find personally gratifying sounds really... what is the word... COLLECTIVIST!!!

Yeah bullshit, having a nice place to live is personally gratifying, raising a family who will grow up wanting for nothing is personally gratifying, doing what you are good at and running your own business, being your own boss is personally gratifying. That story about that plumber I told, I called him dumb, but a decade back I'm staring at a repo notice for a used car I had, not because I was broke but because paying bills is tedious and while valuble to myself and society sure as hell isnt personally gratifying, I thought about him wondering "who is the dumb shit now?"

[PartyOf5]

<rest snipped>

Stop trying to fuck this up. This is the way it should be.

You sound like a union guy. It's already fucked up. Manufacturing companies are sending work to other countries in part because there aren't enough skilled workers to make their stuff. Over time, more jobs go away and more skilled workers look to find other jobs. At some point it may be yours that either goes away or gets taken over by someone else who lost theirs before.

As for the "services" trades, I basically have a 50/50 chance of getting the job done right. I had a concreted driveway done a few years back. Company sent out the B team and they didn't do things properly. They had to bring the A team back to re-do a bunch of stuff. I guess you're happy the b team makes good money. I'd rather have more competition out there so I can count on a B team to do the job right. In other cases the places I call are booked out so far they either tell me they can't take the work or they don't even bother calling back.

You my want to hold customers hostage by being able to charge more for services, but I want less of my tax money paying for unemployment and welfare. Boo Hoo if that means you have some competition for your job.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

I don't know guys... this whole concept that people should do what is valuable to society rather than what they find personally gratifying sounds really... what is the word... COLLECTIVIST!!!

I have no problem with them doing what they find personally gratifying. The problem I have is those same people then bitch and moan about their school debt and how they should have a 6 figure job right out of school. When they can't get that they want their debt paid off for them and for those with jobs to subsidize them.

Those people exist, and they are irritating.

But I think there are a lot of people who took on a lot of debt going to school in a rip-roarin' economy, and then graduated into one that hit the skids. Take on more debt to get retrained for a tighter market? Apprentice in a trade for very little or no pay (if they can even find one) while interest stacks up?

Not a lot of options.

Free schooling can retrain people. It can be a good place to make valuable connections (especially in arts... you aren't really going for accreditation, you are going to work with and meet skilled people), or it can just be a place where people who work jobs they hate can learn about something they are interested in to lessen the crushing existential dread.

There are worse things to spend my tax money on.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

I don't know guys... this whole concept that people should do what is valuable to society rather than what they find personally gratifying sounds really... what is the word... COLLECTIVIST!!!

Yeah bullshit, having a nice place to live is personally gratifying, raising a family who will grow up wanting for nothing is personally gratifying, doing what you are good at and running your own business, being your own boss is personally gratifying. That story about that plumber I told, I called him dumb, but a decade back I'm staring at a repo notice for a used car I had, not because I was broke but because paying bills is tedious and while valuble to myself and society sure as hell isnt personally gratifying, I thought about him wondering "who is the dumb shit now?"

You seem awfully confident you know what is personally gratifying for people you have never met.

I am not saying people should never do tedious chores... but the idea that anyone who doesn't get a STEM degree can go fuck themselves because society values STEM? Bah! Bah I say!

[apeman]

Typos are good.

Proof that someone is typing out their own thoughts without copy/paste and without multiple revisions (which is often used to obfuscate)

[Speaker to Animals]

I don't know guys... this whole concept that people should do what is valuable to society rather than what they find personally gratifying sounds really... what is the word... COLLECTIVIST!!!

Yeah bullshit, having a nice place to live is personally gratifying, raising a family who will grow up wanting for nothing is personally gratifying, doing what you are good at and running your own business, being your own boss is personally gratifying. That story about that plumber I told, I called him dumb, but a decade back I'm staring at a repo notice for a used car I had, not because I was broke but because paying bills is tedious and while valuble to myself and society sure as hell isnt personally gratifying, I thought about him wondering "who is the dumb shit now?"

You seem awfully confident you know what is personally gratifying for people you have never met.

I am not saying people should never do tedious chores... but the idea that anyone who doesn't get a STEM degree can go fuck themselves because society values STEM? Bah! Bah I say!

The thing is.. you guys always seem to pin "society's valuing" somebody with how much money people give them. In that context, society doesn't value about 99% of artists because they lack extraordinary talent and they don't contribute anything in economic demand.

That doesn't mean I devalue them as human beings. It's not my fault they pursued an art degree instead of a trade, though.