Developments in the area of USPACOM, Pacific Theatre

[Smitty-48]

The only added defense they add is by forcing the US totime salvos so 1st wave of stealth cruise missiles don't strike those islands before main land targets.

Don't waste the money, F-35 can get to weapons release undetected to deliver JDAM-ER, while shooting down the Flankers at the same time, then does its own strike damage assesment on the way out, save the expensive one shot stealth cruise missiles for when you actually need them; nuclear counterforce as necessary.

[Smitty-48]

So America loses an aircraft carrier, so what? America sinks the entire Chinese navy as a result, Chinese government collapses internally in the face of a self inflicted catastrophic defeat, Big Red White and Blue Machine cranks out ten more aircraft carriers and just rolls on without them.

Yet, if the whole issue is a bunch of stupid rocky islets in the middle of nowhere? If there's a risk that those aircraft carriers might be at risk. If the carrier having those super-duper awesome F-35s might be at risk.

"ZOMG China!!! The Dominos are falling in the China Seas!!!"

Duck and cover, everyone.

[ssu]

So America loses an aircraft carrier, so what? America sinks the entire Chinese navy as a result, Chinese government collapses internally in the face of a self inflicted catastrophic defeat, Big Red White and Blue Machine cranks out ten more aircraft carriers and just rolls on without them.

Yet, if the whole issue is a bunch of stupid rocky islets in the middle of nowhere? If there's a risk that those aircraft carriers might be at risk. If the carrier having those super-duper awesome F-35s might be at risk.

"ZOMG China!!! The Dominos are falling in the China Seas!!!"

Duck and cover, everyone.

Seems like you don't get it.

Foreign policy, information warfare and just the presence or deterrence of forces do effect the outcomes without any wars being fought.

Just to think these issues in terms of all-out wars is rather silly.

[TheReal_ND]

>mfw Democrats start saber rattling against Chyna because Russia has been done and Chyna hacks our elections in 2020 giving Trump four more years leaving Dems eternally booty blasted

[Smitty-48]

Yet, if the whole issue is a bunch of stupid rocky islets in the middle of nowhere? If there's a risk that those aircraft carriers might be at risk. If the carrier having those super-duper awesome F-35s might be at risk.

"ZOMG China!!! The Dominos are falling in the China Seas!!!"

Duck and cover, everyone.

Seems like you don't get it.

Foreign policy, information warfare and just the presence or deterrence of forces do effect the outcomes without any wars being fought.

Just to think these issues in terms of all-out wars is rather silly.

What's not to get? The Chinese are deterred from launching a massed ballistic missile raid against US forces in the Pacific, by the same hydrogen bombs which deter the Chinese from any massed ballistic missile raid against US forces anywhere, for the Chinese to attempt to sink the US Navy, is for the Chinese to commit national seppuku.

Presence and deterrence is exponentially on the US side, in the face of a phony baloney ginned up Paper Tiger who ain't actually scary at all.

If the Chinese ever started shooting, the Americans would hand the Chinese a brutal beat down, if the Chinese launched a massed ballistic missile raid in response, the Americans would nuke them into the stone age, thus, the Chinese are bluffing, the Chinese know it, and the Americans know it too.

It's a stalemate, wherein the Americans et. al. continue to sail around the China Seas with impunity, while the Chinese fume about all they like, but never actually do anything, because if they ever did, they would get their asses handed to them, and everybody knows it.

Deterrence and presence to impunity; the Americans have it, the Chinese don't, simple as that.

Why doesn't any state simply sink a US carrier? It ain't that hard to do, so why don't they just do it, right now? Answer; because that would incite the Americans to reduce their entire state to rubble inside of a month, that's how deterrence works, it's not just the American nukes which deter, if you're a territorial industrialized state, the Americans can hold you at risk for total anihlation, in relatively short order, which is why non-state actors are the only ones who ever dare attack the Americans anymore.

[ssu]

Umm... the DF-21d doesn't need to be nuclear.

If China attacks with conventional missiles (even if an anti-ship ballistic missile is anything than conventional), it's hard then for the US to justify a nuclear attack.

Now I'm not so sure of just how capable the system is, because it has to have really a technological breakthrough: hitting a moving target like an aircraft carrier is on thing, even if the missile employs a maneuverable reentry vehicle and even if China has the systems for guidance (starting from the satellites that find the carriers). I think the best way counter it isn't trying to hit the incoming bullet with another bullet, but attack the guidance system through electronic countermeasures.

The Basic problem in anti-ballistic missile defence is that a ballistic missile while re-entering the atmosphere rapidly changes it's speed (due to air). For an DF-21d this is a huge problem, if the satellite gives the correct area of the carrier, the reentry vehicle has to steer itself to hit a rather small moving target. Not at all something easy to do. The DF-21d is said to have a range of 1450 km and the future DF-26 of a range of 3000km. Hence the former can hit targets in Japan and Phillipines (and their coastal Waters) while the DF-26 can possible attack carriers way out in the Pacific.

[Smitty-48]

Umm... the DF-21d doesn't need to be nuclear.

A massed ballistic missile raid to sink the US Navy does not have to be nuclear for the Americans to respond with nuclear weapons, this is why the Americans maintain a massive arsenal of tactical nuclear weapons as well as strategic.

China attempting to sink the US Navy by balliistic missile raid, is going to incite the Americans to retaliate on a massive scale, yes, with tactical nuclear weapons as neccesary, trying to sink the US Navy in the western Pacific with ballistic missiles, is an act of war just short of total war, anybody who thinks the Americans are just going to take a massed ballitic missile raid from China, sinking carrier strike groups in the process, without that inciting World War Three on the spot, is just being silly.

You shoot a ballistic missile at Guam, you're getting nuked for that, make no mistake, which the Chinese would not, which is why obvious bluffing is obvious. Any massed ballistic missile launch by the Chinese against US forces is a launch-on-warning scenario, the Chinese are not immune to deterrence, if they were, they'd start shooting right now, based on your hyperbolic nonsense peddling.

"ZOMG DF-21D!!!" is hysterical clickbait for morons, get a clue, ssu.

[kybkh]

Hard to imagine the US taking a ballistic missile strike on the nose and responding with finger wagging.

The Japanese might have some insight on the topic.

Hard for any of us to appreciate the balancing act required for controlling a population of that size.

Anyone got a favoribility rating the Chinese have for US? I am heading down from the mountains and am out of pocket.

[Calculus Man]

I get an erection the size of the Washington Monument whenever Smitty talks ordnance...

I believe* that most Americans overestimate the stability and strategic advantages of China, primarily due to MSM influence.

*I can't think so, because I don't know enough.

[ssu]

"ZOMG DF-21D!!!" is hysterical clickbait for morons, get a clue, ssu.

No, it's just one example of that asymmetric warfare. And totally understandable: just look at how much effort was made during the Gulf war to hunt for the Iraqi Scuds in a desert environment and still those launcher could be hidden. And still fired scuds into Israel & Saudi-Arabia. Trucks having missiles on them is an easy weapon system to hide and doesn't cost so much... as a huge surface ship or even a costlier submarine. And then simply there's naval mines, perfect area denial weapons.

Another example, a long range anti-ship Cruise missile C-602YJ-62


Because in the end, it's obvious that China isn't trying to go on an arms race to equal the US Navy. That's obvious. But somehow they have to build deterrence from their viewpoint.