Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[Speaker to Animals]

Also, be careful what you wish for. It was the Reformers who did most of the killing and genocides in the religious wars. Reformation implies fundamentalism and a similar runaway ideology like you see in far left political revolutions. You grew up in a Protestant nation and got a healthy dose of the propaganda. It's difficult for people to get that, especially when they already hate the Catholic Church.

Any analog in Islam is simply going to be even worse. A Muslim Reformation would likely be something like ISIS with a puritanical outlook on how to make a paradise on Earth by following God's plan for humanity. Only, that plan won't mean living virtuous lives like Puritans, but likely slaughtering the rest of us.

It will come down to an explanation of why the Islamic world sucks so bad and why they keep losing. Hint: They will not admit it's because of Islam. They will claim people did not follow God's special plan, just like our reformers, and they will fight it out as to who truly grasps God's true plan (also lije our reformers), but you have to know whatever plan tbey settle on means lots and lots of death.

[Hastur]

Muslim scholars nails 40 reform thesis to Berlin mosque door.
http://www.bz-berlin.de/berlin/islamwis ... oscheetuer

Here is a mediocre translation of the article and a better translation of the 40 Thesis.

Only a reformed Islam belongs to Germany, says Islamologist Abdel-Hakim Ourghi. He now proposed 40 theses on the reform of Islam to the door of the Dar-Assalam mosque.
A Martin Luther of Islam? In the year of the 500th anniversary of the Reformation, Abdel-Hakim Ourghi, the Freiburg-based Islamologist and religious pedagogue, has beaten 40 theses on the reform of Islam on a mosque doorway in Berlin. On Saturday morning, Ourghi fixed his theses on a humanist, peaceful Islam at the door of the Dar-Assalam mosque ("Neukölln meeting place"). The co-founder of the Liberal Berlin Ibn-Rushd-Goethe-Moschee had his book "Reform of Islam. 40 theses ".

In the book presentation on Friday evening in Berlin, Ourghi emphasized: "Only a reformed Islam belongs to Germany." There is an honest debate about the Koran based violence, the oppression of women, the exclusion and persecution of other thinkers in the name of religion also talk about the dark sides of Islam. "

"There is no love of God without human love"
Ourghi said that Islam must be adopted from the belief in the letter, said Ourghi: "It is necessary to make a historico-critical interpretation of the Qur'an and the conscious departure from certain Koranurs with violence as in the so-called sword verses. Feststehe: "There is no love of God without human love," said the Islamologist.

Ourghi criticized the policy of the federal government, especially with Islam associations such as Ditib or the Central Council of Muslims in Germany, in the book presentation. One makes a mistake if one tries to transfer the state-church relationship to Islam. "Associations like Ditib are not religious communities, but cultural associations," said Ourghi. They followed a national, ethnic and political agenda and were mostly controlled from abroad. "The state needs Muslim contacts. It is not the number of people, but the values ​​that someone represents, "emphasized the Islamologist.

"No religion can stand above human rights."
Born in Algeria in 1968, Ourghi has headed the Faculty of Islamic Theology and Religious Education at the University of Education in Freiburg since 2011. He was accompanied by the book presentation by Seyran Ates, the director of the Berlin Reformmoschee "Ibn Rushd - Goethe", to whose co-founder Ourghi belongs. She underlined the humanistic concerns of the Islam reformers: "No religion can stand above human rights."
The Islamic critic Hamed Abdel-Samad also agreed with the book presentation. The German-Egyptian, however, doubts that Islam is reformable. If at all, the impulses for a reformed, enlightened Islam must come from the freedom of the West. "Martin Luther had the fortune during his reformation that some princes supported him and protected him," Abdel-Samad said. "Actually, the West should be our princes. But in Germany one would rather stick to the conservative Islamic associations. "

In 1517, Martin Luther (1483-1546) had published his 95 theses against the grievances of the church of his time, which he nailed to the door of the Wittenberg castle church on 31 October. The thesis is the starting point of the global reformation, which resulted in a division into the Protestant and Catholic Church.

Correction: In the first version of the text, it was said that the mosque was considered a Salafistic. This is wrong. The operator association of the Dar-Assalam mosque in Berlin-Neukölln is, however, listed by the Berlin constitutional protection of the country. On the other hand, the club is currently complaining.

40 THESIS

1. It is time for a European Islam.
2. The Holy Scripture of Islam in itself is lifeless. It is the interpretation that makes it come alive.
3. Every Muslim has the freedom to interpret the Koran as he or she wants.
4. A reform of Islam needs courageous reformers.
5. The heritage of Islam must be freely researched.
6. The reform of Islam is grounded in the Koran itself.
7. Reform of Islam means its adaptation to modern times.
8. Criticism of Islam is not a general rejection of the Islamic faith.
9. The Koran as a word of God has become a human word over the centuries.
10. He who respects the Koran can not take it literally.
11. The Muslims must turn the Koran into a book of peace again.
12. The Koran is eternal and timeless only as a basic record of humanistic ethics.
13. Islam is not a universal religion, for the Koran is a religious document written to the Arabs.
14. The true creed of Islam is: "I testify, there is no God but Allah." (Koran 20:14)
15. The Koran itself emphasizes the truth of Torah and Gospels.
16. Muhammad is but a man like the rest of the people.
17. To err is human, even the prophet erred.
18. The tradition of the prophet came about two centuries after the death of the prophet for political reasons.
19. The reform of Islam is a constant struggle against the clouding of reason.
20. Islam has a troubled relationship to self-reflection..
21. The Muslims need no scholar as an intermediary between God and man.
22. The mosques must finally be liberated from imported and selfmade imams.
23. God is not a tyrant who longs to punish men. God is love, mercy, and grace.
24. Islam is more than the five pillars and the doctrine of faith, namely good action. sola actiol
25. God has freed men for freedom.
26. God has given man freedom of expression.
27. The principle of religious freedom also applies in Islam.
28. No one has the right to declare other people unbelievers.
29. "The dignity of man is inviolable" - this also applies to Islam and the Muslims.
30. The dialogue among the Muslims is vital for there is no chosen religious community in Islam.
31. Reconciled Diversity in the Dialogic Encounter: To be religious today means to be interreligious.
32. No religion is in possession of absolute truth, and no man has the key to paradise.
33. Islam has not made women women, but men's serfs. The women of Islam must rise, because their tormentors will not free them.
34. The headscarf is not a religious prescription but a historical product of male domination.
35. Not the Koran but the male rule of conservative Islam forbids women, as imams in their communities.
36. Islam has very much to do with Islamism.
37. Non-reformed Islam is not a religion of peace.
38. The Islamic crisis of sense/identity is home-made. We Muslims are not victims.
39. Humanist-modern Islam shares the world with other religions and worldviews.
40. Only as a liberal religion is Islam capable of future.

OFF: ABDEL-HAKIM OURGHI: REFORM OF ISLAM. 40 THESIS

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Better late than never, Islam.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Also, be careful what you wish for. It was the Reformers who did most of the killing and genocides in the religious wars. Reformation implies fundamentalism and a similar runaway ideology like you see in far left political revolutions. You grew up in a Protestant nation and got a healthy dose of the propaganda. It's difficult for people to get that, especially when they already hate the Catholic Church.

Any analog in Islam is simply going to be even worse. A Muslim Reformation would likely be something like ISIS with a puritanical outlook on how to make a paradise on Earth by following God's plan for humanity. Only, that plan won't mean living virtuous lives like Puritans, but likely slaughtering the rest of us.

It will come down to an explanation of why the Islamic world sucks so bad and why they keep losing. Hint: They will not admit it's because of Islam. They will claim people did not follow God's special plan, just like our reformers, and they will fight it out as to who truly grasps God's true plan (also lije our reformers), but you have to know whatever plan tbey settle on means lots and lots of death.

You think that just 'cause Luther was a freaking nut.

Islam has the advantage of learning from Christianities screw ups, if they are interested.

Don't be such a cynic.

[BjornP]

Forcing Migrants on Nations Will Mean the End of the EU’: Polish President

More.....MORE.....MORE.........MORE!!!!!

Keep'em streaming in....

OK, Hungary backs Poland in defiance of Brussels

Speaking on public Polish Radio 24, Péter Szijjártó said his country “will always vote against any sanctions or penalties for Poland because we think it is double standards.”

Brussels is locked in a dispute with Poland over a number of issues, including the country’s refusal to accept migrants and judicial reforms.
http://www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/3297 ... -Poland-FM

The migrant issue isn't the reason for the proposed sanctions. The reason EU wants to sanction Poland and Hungary has to do with recent laws that diminish freedom of speech and the fundamental principle of the seperation of powers.

This is actually, finally a good reason to sanction. Neither Hungary and Poland are "defending their country" against the EU in this case. They are lessening democratic freedoms in their own countries. If a formerly democratic country is "free" to move towards anti-democracy, naturally its neighbours are equally free to sanction them for it. If the US were to abandon all of its amendments and its constitution, all other democratic countries in the world would also be naturally free - and justified - in imposing whatever sanctions they see fit on it in the hopes that that could persuade them to re-implement democracy.

https://www.ft.com/content/b1bd2424-6ed ... 9?mhq5j=e7

[BjornP]

I heard Russians will look at you crazy if you so much as smile at them and they don't know you.

It's not so much they will get angry, but they do consider smiling at a stranger (and a stranger smiling at them) to be a breach of polite conduct. As in, you smile at and with, your friends and relatives, those you trust. Similarly, you won't find many Russian photographic portraits with Russians smiling. All of which is similar how we in Western and Northern Europe + North America considered smiling untill around a century ago.

[de officiis]

I heard Russians will look at you crazy if you so much as smile at them and they don't know you.

Fuck that, it's not just Russians... it's anyone this day and age it seems.

Pretty much, yeah. Cities are very uncomfortable places for me.

http://collection.whitney.org/object/3052

[Speaker to Animals]

Also, be careful what you wish for. It was the Reformers who did most of the killing and genocides in the religious wars. Reformation implies fundamentalism and a similar runaway ideology like you see in far left political revolutions. You grew up in a Protestant nation and got a healthy dose of the propaganda. It's difficult for people to get that, especially when they already hate the Catholic Church.

Any analog in Islam is simply going to be even worse. A Muslim Reformation would likely be something like ISIS with a puritanical outlook on how to make a paradise on Earth by following God's plan for humanity. Only, that plan won't mean living virtuous lives like Puritans, but likely slaughtering the rest of us.

It will come down to an explanation of why the Islamic world sucks so bad and why they keep losing. Hint: They will not admit it's because of Islam. They will claim people did not follow God's special plan, just like our reformers, and they will fight it out as to who truly grasps God's true plan (also lije our reformers), but you have to know whatever plan tbey settle on means lots and lots of death.

You think that just 'cause Luther was a freaking nut.

Islam has the advantage of learning from Christianities screw ups, if they are interested.

Don't be such a cynic.

I think that because of the genocide perpetrated by Protestants in most kingdoms where it happened. It took a really long time for Protestants to settle down. You were indoctrinated and acculturated in a Protestant nation, so it's difficult for your to see it.

An Islamic "Reformation" would be worse than ISIS.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

You think that just 'cause Luther was a freaking nut.

Islam has the advantage of learning from Christianities screw ups, if they are interested.

Don't be such a cynic.

I think that because of the genocide perpetrated by Protestants in most kingdoms where it happened. It took a really long time for Protestants to settle down. You were indoctrinated and acculturated in a Protestant nation, so it's difficult for your to see it.

An Islamic "Reformation" would be worse than ISIS.

No, I see it.

ISIS is already almost totally analogous to the Protestant reformation in a lot of ways. I am saying that Muslims can push on through to the settle-the-fuck-down enlightenment phase quickly if they are inclined, since the world is already set to embrace it, having already gone through the whole process. The 40 thesis posted look more like enlightenment values than Luther's thesis.

Nobody needs an Islamic reformation, they need an Islamic enlightenment.

[Speaker to Animals]

You think that just 'cause Luther was a freaking nut.

Islam has the advantage of learning from Christianities screw ups, if they are interested.

Don't be such a cynic.

I think that because of the genocide perpetrated by Protestants in most kingdoms where it happened. It took a really long time for Protestants to settle down. You were indoctrinated and acculturated in a Protestant nation, so it's difficult for your to see it.

An Islamic "Reformation" would be worse than ISIS.

No, I see it.

ISIS is already almost totally analogous to the Protestant reformation in a lot of ways. I am saying that Muslims can push on through to the settle-the-fuck-down enlightenment phase quickly if they are inclined, since the world is already set to embrace it, having already gone through the whole process. The 40 thesis posted look more like enlightenment values than Luther's thesis.

Nobody needs an Islamic reformation, they need an Islamic enlightenment.

Islam is it's own thing. Islam is capable of becoming it's own civilization with it's own cultural forms and mode of existence, totally different from our own. This is why I do not think Muslims belong in the West in any large demographics, and vice versa. We are two different civilizations of people with completely and antithetical ways of living and value systems.

What this guy is doing is sad to me. He is so mixed up and he cannot reconcile his identity as a Muslim with his identity as a German. I might not like Islam, but I I am not a fan of this deracinated confusion. People losing their identities is historically a dangerous time.

This guy is basically Islam's version of our dingbat women wearing pussy hats and submitting to Allah in a Muslim prayer led by a jihadi.