Russia! Russia!! Russia!!!

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Make up your mind.

The firing instigated the special council. The special council isn't investigating the firing. These gotchas are boring. I am happy to entertain a counter argument, but failing at pedantry to misrepresent my argument is beneath you.

Comey being fired caused the DOJ to suspect Trump was a Russian agent. Explain that.

The Comey firing caused the DOJ to be concerned that it had a compromised, pre-existing counterintelligence operation. They already suspected Russian interference, Trump knocking off FBI agents meant they had to insulate their counterintelligence operation from him. Thus, special COUNSEL (Fife ).

We don't know whether or not they have evidence that Trump is either a willing agent, or a unwitting tool, but the evidence that Russians have been working intel ops with Americans exists without either the FISA or the Steel dossier. Also, please don't take this as me saying Russia hijacked, or completely manipulated the election, the evidence that they were running a operation is not a statement in any way about the effectiveness of that operation. I find it incredibly unlikely that they had anywhere near the effect the Dems would like to believe they did.
HOWEVER, it was still a hostile operation by the Russians, and still warrants effective counterintelligence activities, which IS the remit of the FBI when it involves Americans.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

The quality of the evidence isn't determined by whom you trust.

the evidence that isnt improperly redacted or smashed with hammers, atleast

FBI/DOJ Destroyed evidence, just like Mueller destroyed text message evidence. That is known and proven.

Wheres the Fucking Indictments !

Are we talking about the super secret text destroying programs someone tweeted about, and Breitbart got all boned up for?

Known and proven my ass. That is like me suggesting that it is known and proven that Trump is guilty of obstruction because Adam Serwer at the Atlantic thinks it is an airtight case already.

[C-Mag]

The firing instigated the special council. The special council isn't investigating the firing. These gotchas are boring. I am happy to entertain a counter argument, but failing at pedantry to misrepresent my argument is beneath you.

Comey being fired caused the DOJ to suspect Trump was a Russian agent. Explain that.

The Comey firing caused the DOJ to be concerned that it had a compromised, pre-existing counterintelligence operation. They already suspected Russian interference, Trump knocking off FBI agents meant they had to insulate their counterintelligence operation from him. Thus, special COUNSEL (Fife ).

We don't know whether or not they have evidence that Trump is either a willing agent, or a unwitting tool, but the evidence that Russians have been working intel ops with Americans exists without either the FISA or the Steel dossier. Also, please don't take this as me saying Russia hijacked, or completely manipulated the election, the evidence that they were running a operation is not a statement in any way about the effectiveness of that operation. I find it incredibly unlikely that they had anywhere near the effect the Dems would like to believe they did.
HOWEVER, it was still a hostile operation by the Russians, and still warrants effective counterintelligence activities, which IS the remit of the FBI when it involves Americans.

Hmmm

So what was the pretext for the FBI to start investigating Trump.

[C-Mag]

The quality of the evidence isn't determined by whom you trust.

the evidence that isnt improperly redacted or smashed with hammers, atleast

FBI/DOJ Destroyed evidence, just like Mueller destroyed text message evidence. That is known and proven.

Wheres the Fucking Indictments !

And wheres the indictments for these known crimes.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Comey being fired caused the DOJ to suspect Trump was a Russian agent. Explain that.

The Comey firing caused the DOJ to be concerned that it had a compromised, pre-existing counterintelligence operation. They already suspected Russian interference, Trump knocking off FBI agents meant they had to insulate their counterintelligence operation from him. Thus, special COUNSEL (Fife ).

We don't know whether or not they have evidence that Trump is either a willing agent, or a unwitting tool, but the evidence that Russians have been working intel ops with Americans exists without either the FISA or the Steel dossier. Also, please don't take this as me saying Russia hijacked, or completely manipulated the election, the evidence that they were running a operation is not a statement in any way about the effectiveness of that operation. I find it incredibly unlikely that they had anywhere near the effect the Dems would like to believe they did.
HOWEVER, it was still a hostile operation by the Russians, and still warrants effective counterintelligence activities, which IS the remit of the FBI when it involves Americans.

Hmmm

So what was the pretext for the FBI to start investigating Trump.

That is a good question. Unfortunately, I am not privy to the FBI's entire Russian counterintelligence situation... or even a fraction of it.

I think that is the wrong way to look at it, though. The special counsel isn't 'investigating Trump.' It is investigating Russian intel operations in the US, and that investigation is finding that people close to Trump were in contact with Russian agents. As an American, Trump then falls under the umbrella of the FBI's Russia investigation, writ large.

The focus on Trump started in earnest when it seemed he was trying to obstruct that investigation. Even if Trump's actions don't qualify as obstruction, they do raise legitimate concerns of a conflict of interest between the DOJ and the executive. Before that, while liberals were sure that Trump only won because of Russia, the intelligence community of the US only thought Russia was operating in America, not that Trump was a participant in that operation, or even the intended beneficiary of it.

It was Trump's own anger at the mere suggestion of illegitimacy that started him down the path of accusing his own DOJ of bias, which forced the DOJ to insulate their operations from him. As the Chief Executive, Trump SHOULD be in the loop in investigating Russian intelligence operations against the US, but because he is blinded by his own ego, he took all that shit personally, and started doing stupid shit.

[Speaker to Animals]

LOL

The delusion of the Universe B people is pretty funny sometimes.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Yeah, your universe A blind faith is superior.

[Speaker to Animals]

Nope. Just going by actual evidence (there is none).

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Seems to sum up your feelings on evidence nicely.

[Speaker to Animals]

It also sums up the simple fact that nobody has presented strict evidence that Trump is illegally colluding with the Russians.

We do have lots of evidence that others illegally colluded with Putin, including Hillary Clinton, Barrack Obama, Mueller, etc. etc. It's almost as if the real conspirators are running the investigation into the conspiracy.. Hmm...