Daniel Shaver shooting

[LVH2]

The 66,000 non combatants in Iraq were not the enemy, and the Americans who killed them did not intend to murder them with malice, you have to make split second decisions, under extreme pressure, and you don't have hindsight to make judgements, and when you're in an environment where everyone is armed to the teeth, and you can't tell who is who in the moment, shit happens, that's just how it goes.

Sometimes you're too aggressive, sometimes you're not aggressive enough, but you can't know for sure, you just have to make a call, one way or the other, it's the quick and the dead, sometimes you make the right call, sometimes you don't.

The problem is this premise that people are trying to shoot cops left and right and therefore they are justified in killing people, pets, the elderly, etc as soon as they feel a little scared. In actuality, something like 50 cops per year are shot/stabbed and killed. It's not much of a risk. Many more die driving. If we want to save cops lives by letting them puss out, we should say they don't have to speed and run lights en route to emergencies.

Considering the cops kill well over 20 civilians for every one who kills them, it is us who should be afraid in these situations. They have little to worry about and are trained. We have a lot to worry about and are untrained. They are in control, armed and issuing the commands, with armed, trained partners. We are scared, in an unfamiliar situation and maybe drunk. They are the killers over 95% of the time. But if they kill us out of unjustified fear, it's kosher.

Moreover, their job is to deal with people who are intoxicated, crazy, stupid, belligerent, etc. They should know how to deal with people who are erratic, belligerent, non-compliant, or panicked.

Miraculously, postmen can work without shooting every dog who might maybe possibly bite them. EMTs can deal with drunks and crazies without shooting them. Teachers can deal with gang members without shooting them every time they fail to follow instructions or reach in their pocket or get belligerent.

Police are only in marginally more danger than these people, yet we give them license to kill anybody who, as DSL says, screws up a game of simon says.

They get 80k/year on a high school diploma and retire at 50 because they are paid to take risks to keep us safe. If that bargain is off, pay the legions of fifes accordingly. If it's on, change the laws and training accordingly.

Well, that's a political case not a legal one, I mean, hey, if you want to make me dictator, I'll throw his ass in jail, no problemo, that's not going to bring Daniel Shaver back, but I'm not saying I like the guy, I don't like that cop at all, and if you want to throw the law aside and give me centralized power to dole out retribution, I'm here for you, I'd be chucking dickheads out of helicopters left and right, just for pissing me off.

I think it's largely a political problem. This is how the police are trained and how they are used by the political structure.

Was reminiscing with some cousins just yesterday about our days as screw up kids. Rob constantly had warrants for failing to pay tickets. He'd have to pay a portion of them, maybe $100, on the spot when he got caught. One time, a cop drove him to an ATM. (Helps to be a white suburbanite).

Today, he'd be hauled to jail, the city would steal his car, the fines would run into the thousands, etc. etc. And similar things were true of most of our youthful transgressions.

Don't think I've told this one. A buddy of mine had his license stolen 8 years ago. He reported it. The thief used his DL to rent a car and not return it.

My buddy, 40 years old, no record, is pulled over last year. Arrested. Car impounded. $30,000 bail for felony fraud. Pay $3,000 to a bail bondsman or spend weeks in jail awaiting trial. If he didn't have the 3k, obviously, he loses his job and his car.

It's not that cops woke up one day and decided to go to war against the population. These are the laws and policies enacted by politicians.

I think it's related to militarization, and the policies and laws that say cops should treat us as enemy combatants, and it's reasonable for them to assume that if we pull up our pants we are going for an unseen gun.

[Smitty-48]

I don't think it's militarization, I would submit, that fear you mentioned, which makes people angry, is the vector by which the police have centralized power in America, you're afraid of criminals, so you've empowered the police to deal with them, you're saying that this policeman here is criminal too and you're afraid of him, and so you are calling it in all over again, who do you think is going to police the police? It's gonna be more police, and they are going to centralize power to do it as well.

Like I said, you could charge him with a Federal Civil Rights violation, but that's the FBI, the scariest police of them all.

[clubgop]

I am literally shaking. That is murder.

You are literally stupid. You should keep your fucking mouth shut. Your want for heroism on the part of the LVPD produces this kind thing. You shot that dude as much as anyone else. For all you know he was preventing another Las Vegas. He did exactly as you wanted him to do. Exactly what your gun confiscation policies would do. The murderer is you.

I have never supported a shoot-first policy. That’s the realm of trailer politics.

Call it whatever name you want you have and you did. Las Vegas you were all bout it. You want perfect safety and protection, someone else to fight your battles and dare to question the way it is provided. You are a cowardly bitch and your opinion on the matter is meaningless.

[Smitty-48]

Indeed, like I said, there are terrorists in America, military threat, and so whining about "militarization" is pointless, when the criminals have military firepower, law enforcement must be militarized, Officer Friendly is not capable of counterterrorism.

Officer Friendly is going to be sent into action against millions of wannabe Rambos, with a whistle and a billy club? I mean, get real.

[Smitty-48]

It can't be "militarization of the police", the most militarized police in the world, are in Europe, the most fearsome militarized police of them all, but for example, the Federal German Border Police, who are literally members of the armed forces, on average shoot 9 people per year, in a nation of 80 million, so "militarization" is a canard.

[SuburbanFarmer]

You are literally stupid. You should keep your fucking mouth shut. Your want for heroism on the part of the LVPD produces this kind thing. You shot that dude as much as anyone else. For all you know he was preventing another Las Vegas. He did exactly as you wanted him to do. Exactly what your gun confiscation policies would do. The murderer is you.

I have never supported a shoot-first policy. That’s the realm of trailer politics.

Call it whatever name you want you have and you did. Las Vegas you were all bout it. You want perfect safety and protection, someone else to fight your battles and dare to question the way it is provided. You are a cowardly bitch and your opinion on the matter is meaningless.

There’s a pretty big difference between sitting in a hallway for 30 minutes durin an active shooting, and blasting a teenager in the face for not crawling correctly.

The fact that anyone needs to explain this to you speaks volumes.

[Smitty-48]

That's not militarization tho, that's the polar opposite of militarization, the most militarized police unit on earth is arguably the German GSG9, and they wouldn't have shot him, they would have come down the hallway behind ballistic shields and roughly handled him, no doubt, but they wouldn't have shot him.

Militarized is exponentially more controlled, not less, American hot heads popping off and shooting from the hip all over the place, with nobody in command and control of anything, is an anathema to militarization. You're problem is not militarization, it's a total lack thereof.

The military doesn't go in unprepared, the military doesn't go in without a plan, the military doesn't do anything until they have reconnaissance as to the situation, the military is methodical, and there is a clear chain of command, with a commander at the top at all times, and the military wouldn't put that kid-cop in charge of this operation, under any circumstances, they would have waited until there was a senior officer on scene to take command.

[clubgop]

I have never supported a shoot-first policy. That’s the realm of trailer politics.

Call it whatever name you want you have and you did. Las Vegas you were all bout it. You want perfect safety and protection, someone else to fight your battles and dare to question the way it is provided. You are a cowardly bitch and your opinion on the matter is meaningless.

There’s a pretty big difference between sitting in a hallway for 30 minutes durin an active shooting, and blasting a teenager in the face for not crawling correctly.

The fact that anyone needs to explain this to you speaks volumes.

A gun is a gun and you don't know the difference. And you want someone else to get the bad men and rob me and others of our right to defend ourselves making us slaves to these police. The fact that you didn't want this kid shot but are totally ok with him crawling on his hands and knees because OMG gun speak volumes about your desire for centralized power cause Freedom is hard. ARMY beat Navy and won the Commander in chief trophy so I am right about everything, you can't even make the playoffs in fantasy.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Call it whatever name you want you have and you did. Las Vegas you were all bout it. You want perfect safety and protection, someone else to fight your battles and dare to question the way it is provided. You are a cowardly bitch and your opinion on the matter is meaningless.

There’s a pretty big difference between sitting in a hallway for 30 minutes durin an active shooting, and blasting a teenager in the face for not crawling correctly.

The fact that anyone needs to explain this to you speaks volumes.

A gun is a gun and you don't know the difference. And you want someone else to get the bad men and rob me and others of our right to defend ourselves making us slaves to these police. The fact that you didn't want this kid shot but are totally ok with him crawling on his hands and knees because OMG gun speak volumes about your desire for centralized power cause Freedom is hard. ARMY beat Navy and won the Commander in chief trophy so I am right about everything, you can't even make the playoffs in fantasy.

Wow, you are really going for Wrong now, aren’t ya. Cheap troll is cheap.

[Smitty-48]

Clubby's right, this incident and the reactions of, not one, but both police officers, is obviously related to the hysteria about guns and mass shootings, and the ever louder screeching that the police "DO SOMETHING!" about it, this got called in as "mad sniper", so when they came around the corner, they didn't see some harmless father of two, they thought it was Dylan Roof or someone like that, and that's why they panicked.

Even if one of them was a psychopath, the odds against both of them being psychopaths, are astronomical.