Another School Shooting

ooky
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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by ooky » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:37 pm

clubgop wrote: We had an AWB for 10 years, it did nothing.
Are you sure it did nothing? And if it did nothing are you sure NO regulation would do anything? First of all, it grandfathered in existing assault weapons, so criminologists who studied the effects said that there were indications is was beginning to have an effect, but was not in place long enough for it to realize its full effect. Second of all, it didn't address other types of guns with high capacity magazines, so people started using those more. Is it possible there is some better, more effective version of the law?
Koper, Jan. 14: The grandfathering provisions in the law meant that the effects of the law would occur only very gradually over time. It seems that those effects were still unfolding when the ban was lifted, and indeed they may not have been fully realized for several more years into the future even if the ban had been extended in 2004.

The evidence is too limited for any firm projections, but it does suggest that long term restrictions on these guns and magazines could potentially produce at least a small reduction in shootings.

Other studies, he said, have suggested attacks with semiautomatic guns – particularly those having large magazines – “result in more shots fired, persons hit and wounds inflicted than do attacks with other guns and magazines.” Another study of handgun attacks in Jersey City during the 1990s, he said, “estimated that incidents involving more than 10 shots fired accounted for between 4 and 5 percent of the total gunshot victims in the sample.”

Koper, Jan. 14: So, using that as a very tentative guide, that’s high enough to suggest that eliminating or greatly reducing crimes with these magazines could produce a small reduction in shootings, likely something less than 5 percent. Now we should note that effects of this magnitude could be hard to ever measure in any very definitive way, but they nonetheless could have nontrivial, notable benefits for society. Consider, for example, at our current level of our gun violence, achieving a 1 percent reduction in fatal and non-fatal criminal shootings would prevent approximately 650 shootings annually … And, of course having these sorts of guns, and particularly magazines, less accessible to offenders could make it more difficult for them to commit the sorts of mass shootings that we’ve seen in recent years.”
https://www.factcheck.org/2013/02/did-t ... -ban-work/

I'm curious what rights you think would be taken away from you - do you own bump stocks?

ooky
Posts: 127
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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by ooky » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:39 pm

Viktorthepirate wrote:
ooky wrote:
clubgop wrote:
Molotov Cocktail, easy. I don't need a background check to buy a 40. So you can take that sass and shove it. Stop lying.
Good if frightening point on the improvised incendiary device :o Seems a little extreme and I have no idea if that would kill 17 people that quickly or just burn them, but ok. Although they do require alcohol strong enough that it's super flammable to have those little fireproof caps. And some states limit the size of high proof alcohol you can purchase, and some have databases to track who buys it. So it still seems to be regulated pretty tightly.

http://globegazette.com/news/local/stat ... 9e4de.html
Good thing no one has ever thought of running people over in a car.
I'm not for that either. But this kid could not have killed 17 of his former classmates in their classrooms while driving a car.

Again, I'm not arguing that the goal is that we crack down on all freedoms so that nothing bad ever happens again. That's impossible. It's about making this better than it is now.

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clubgop
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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by clubgop » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:41 pm

Rescind the rule prohibiting research into gun violence without Congressional appropriation.
No, the CDC is supposed to be researching infectious biological diseases not rail against inanimate objects. You want research proving it is ok to take my rights pay for it yourself.
I'd say if it makes sense to need a state-issued licence to drive a car, that has to be periodically renewed, the same makes sense for guns. Note that the car system is not hard for the vast majority of people to obtain a licence, even when very new at driving cars, but you have to demonstrate basic competence, visual competency, knowledge of applicable traffic laws etc.
No, and to be honest you want no part of this either. You know who provides the classes and curriculum for these classes and houses the most certified instructors on these basic courses? Ill give you a hint it is three letters first is an N, last is an A. You want more members and more money for that organization? Do this?
Figure out a way to track purchases so you can identify people obviously amassing arsenals and law enforcement can check in on them - doesn't mean they can't amass the arsenals, but there should be a level of activity of buying guns and ammo that should be considered a red flag. For god's sake, the second I look at a drill bit cover on one browser, I suddenly get ads for drill bit covers on all my devices, there has to be some way this could work.
What is that going to do? Who would that prevent? "I am fine federal agent not get the fuck off my lawn." Now what?

ooky
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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by ooky » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:49 pm

clubgop wrote:
Rescind the rule prohibiting research into gun violence without Congressional appropriation.
No, the CDC is supposed to be researching infectious biological diseases not rail against inanimate objects. You want research proving it is ok to take my rights pay for it yourself.
I'd say if it makes sense to need a state-issued licence to drive a car, that has to be periodically renewed, the same makes sense for guns. Note that the car system is not hard for the vast majority of people to obtain a licence, even when very new at driving cars, but you have to demonstrate basic competence, visual competency, knowledge of applicable traffic laws etc.
No, and to be honest you want no part of this either. You know who provides the classes and curriculum for these classes and houses the most certified instructors on these basic courses? Ill give you a hint it is three letters first is an N, last is an A. You want more members and more money for that organization? Do this?
Figure out a way to track purchases so you can identify people obviously amassing arsenals and law enforcement can check in on them - doesn't mean they can't amass the arsenals, but there should be a level of activity of buying guns and ammo that should be considered a red flag. For god's sake, the second I look at a drill bit cover on one browser, I suddenly get ads for drill bit covers on all my devices, there has to be some way this could work.
What is that going to do? Who would that prevent? "I am fine federal agent not get the fuck off my lawn." Now what?
CDC researches all other sources of injury. Facts on their own are not dangerous, though ignorance certainly can be.

I have no beef with NRA training.

Wow, I would say if a person who has just been flagged for amassing an arsenal says "I am fine federal agent not get the fuck off my lawn" that warrants further questioning. But by check in, that doesn't mean just talking to the guy. Interview people around him. Check to see if he has recently quit receiving mental health treatment. Recent changes in behavior. Signs of extremism, threats, or violent ideation on social media. Etc. Basically what we are all pissed off the FBI failed to do in this case when alerted to the red flags this kid was showing.

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clubgop
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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by clubgop » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:51 pm

ooky wrote:
clubgop wrote: We had an AWB for 10 years, it did nothing.
Are you sure it did nothing? And if it did nothing are you sure NO regulation would do anything? First of all, it grandfathered in existing assault weapons, so criminologists who studied the effects said that there were indications is was beginning to have an effect, but was not in place long enough for it to realize its full effect. Second of all, it didn't address other types of guns with high capacity magazines, so people started using those more. Is it possible there is some better, more effective version of the law?
See,no consequences, no limiting principles. No true Scotsman and no true assault weapons bans.

We had one for 10 years it did nothing,
but we didn't take your rights long enough
Other states have versions of it no demonstrable effect
Is it possible there is some better, more effective version of the law?
How many firearm death are with rifles? They are minuscule and "assault rifles are a subset of that group. Just admit what you want, I am not a frog, I know this game. If you want to repeal the second and confiscate guns just show me some respect and say so.

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clubgop
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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by clubgop » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:05 pm

ooky wrote:
Wow, I would say if a person who has just been flagged for amassing an arsenal says "I am fine federal agent not get the fuck off my lawn" that warrants further questioning. By what authority. Do you have any research that this does anything? Is a collector more prone to violence than any other gun owner? What demonstrable effect, besides your feels and using federal agents to harass and bully people you don't like will this accomplish? But by check in, that doesn't mean just talking to the guy. Interview people around him. So a neighbor with a beef can make up stories? What if the neighbor won't cooperate is that an indication of further investigation? Check to see if he has recently quit receiving mental health treatment. So if someone gets one more gun than you like it must mean that have mental health problems that require treatment. Recent changes in behavior. He switched from Coke to Diet Coke this monster must be stopped! Signs of extremism, threats, or violent ideation on social media. Etc. Ok, you can do this whithout the other crap in fact it would be more effective. Basically what we are all pissed off the FBI failed to do in this case when alerted to the red flags this kid was showing.So basically lying, this person wasn't "amassing an arsenal he bought one firearm. The FBI can barely chase down the red flags they have now it is folly to send them out to cold call on new ones or makes one up.

Okeefenokee
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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by Okeefenokee » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:20 pm

ooky wrote:Ban bump stocks.

1. One rubber band can accomplish the effect of a bump stock, AND be even more accurate.

2. No matter what method you use, full auto makes a rifle less effective, not more.

Rescind the rule prohibiting research into gun violence without Congressional appropriation.

3. Thousands and thousands of pages of gun violence data are freely available online from hundreds of agencies around the world. There is nothing stopping anyone from conducting research into gun violence.

4. There are thousands of research studies on gun violence.

I'd say if it makes sense to need a state-issued licence to drive a car, that has to be periodically renewed, the same makes sense for guns. Note that the car system is not hard for the vast majority of people to obtain a licence, even when very new at driving cars, but you have to demonstrate basic competence, visual competency, knowledge of applicable traffic laws etc.

5. You only need a license to drive a car on public roads, and you also need a permit to carry a firearm in public.

Figure out a way to track purchases so you can identify people obviously amassing arsenals and law enforcement can check in on them - doesn't mean they can't amass the arsenals, but there should be a level of activity of buying guns and ammo that should be considered a red flag.

6. You can buy as many cars as you want without a background check.

7. You can buy as many cars as you want without being put on a watch list.

8. You can use a car to kill people.

9. One person with one hundred cars is no more dangerous than one person with one car. Same with guns.

For god's sake, the second I look at a drill bit cover on one browser, I suddenly get ads for drill bit covers on all my devices, there has to be some way this could work.

10. Yes, we are aware that the government has all the capacity in the world to spy on us.

11. I thought most of us were opposed to it.

12. Many of the past mass shooters were investigated by the FBI after throwing up red flags, and it didn't stop them.

I also like these suggestions from the NY Post:

https://nypost.com/2018/02/15/mr-presid ... bout-guns/
*Reinstate the federal assault-weapons ban, or at least revive its key features. Passed in 1994 but allowed to lapse 10 years later, that law prohibited the manufacture of semiautomatic firearms that bore certain features, like detachable magazines, that made them more dangerous.

13. The AWB did nothing to reduce gun violence.

14. "Assault Weapon," is a made up term.

15. "Assault Weapon," is a shibboleth for ignorant gun grabbers.

16. Assault rifles are military grade weapons not available to the general public. The term, "Assault Weapon," was chosen because it sounded like assault rifle, and would scare ignorant gun grabbers into thinking they were talking about military grade weaponry.

Perhaps most important, it also outlawed “large capacity” magazines. Critics argue that the ban did little good — but the fact is that the average toll from mass shootings has been growing. It’s surely worth trying to trim a casualty from the next killer’s total. Note, too, that the ban did no real harm. And it certainly didn’t lead the nation down the “slippery slope” toward eliminating other weapons, let alone a repeal of the Second Amendment, as the NRA and other Washington lobbyists warned.

17. Limiting magazine size does not make a weapon less lethal.

18. Soldiers in Vietnam had 10 round magazines, and still racked up colossal kill counts.

*Raise the age to buy firearms. While Nikolas Cruz’s background and motives are still being investigated, it’s already clear he had issues — and people knew it. But at 19, his record wasn’t enough to prevent a gun sale. Background checks are no good if you hardly have a background. Most states ban drinking under 21; there’s no reason not to similarly curb gun purchases. Ban gun sales to “fugitives from justice.” Such sales have long been illegal, but last year, Team Trump opted to exclude fugitives from the background-check database unless they crossed state lines; that removed 500,000 names from the list. Shouldn’t everyone who flees justice be kept from buying guns?

19. This is complete horseshit. From the ACLU,
Dear Senators:

On behalf of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), we urge members of the Senate to support the resolution disapproving the final rule of the Social Security Administration which implements the National Instant Criminal Background Check System Improvement Amendment Acts of 2007. Additionally we urge members to oppose the resolution of disapproval of the rule submitted by the Department of Defense, the General Services Administration, and NASA relating to the Federal Acquisition Regulation that implement the Fair Pay and Safe Workplaces Executive Order 13673.

In December 2016,the SSA promulgated a final rule thatwould require the names of all Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) and Supplemental Security Income (SSI) benefit recipients–who, because of a mental impairment,use a representative payee to help manage their benefits –be submitted to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which is used during gun purchases. We oppose this rule because it advances and reinforces the harmful stereotype that people with mental disabilities, a vast and diverse group of citizens, are violent and should not own a gun. There is no data to support a connection between the need for a representative payee to manage one’s Social Security disability benefits and a propensity toward gun violence. The rule further demonstrates the damaging phenomenon of “spread,” or the perception that a disabled individual with one area of impairment automatically has additional, negative and unrelated attributes. Here, the rule automatically conflates one disability-related characteristic, that is, difficulty managing money, with the inability to safely possess a firearm.
https://www.aclu.org/letter/aclu-vote-r ... -eo-senate


*Target bump stocks. These let shooters turn semiautomatic weapons into ones that fire almost as rapidly as fully automatic ones, which are illegal. The idea of a ban got attention last year after the devices helped the Las Vegas shooter carry out his massacre — but soon died. Congress should act. If it won’t, Trump can order a bureaucratic ban: No one claims the Second Amendment protects these things.

20. Bump stocks make guns dramatically less effective. Know nothing gun grabbers continue to know nothing.

*Kill the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act. This bill would effectively impose some states’ loose gun-control laws on states with tighter ones; it’s arrogant and anti-federalist. It’s probably going nowhere — but the president can send a clear message by denouncing it. Why mess with places like New York City, which is already the safest large city in America?

21. Supremacy clause cuts both ways. If state law can't be undone by federal law, then Roe v Wade is out the window. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

No doubt other steps can help address the mass-shooting horror. We’re all for better reporting of threats and better security — but no one wants America’s schools turned into fortresses.

22. Plenty of people want armed guards at schools just like there are armed guards at malls, airports, and every other government building but schools.

Nothing can be sure to prevent another Parkland or Las Vegas or Sandy Hook. But that’s a poor excuse not to act. America needs to stand up to these attacks — to make it harder for those who shouldn’t have firearms to get them, to send a message that the nation is cracking down. If it’s possible to prevent or limit even a few tragedies, why not?
23. If it's possible to prevent or limit even a few tragedies, why not put everyone in the nation in prison? Why not?

Now, it doesn't need to be all of these, and to me, none of these specifically on their own are a hill to die on. But what's been happening is we keep reducing regulations (Concealed Carry Reciprocity, Trump's rollback last year of mental health restrictions),

24. CCR lives or dies with RvW

25. Mental health restrictions were not rolled back. See above.

and as these things keep happening and we all get upset, anyone in favor of ANY increase in regulation is shouted down, told they are politicizing the issue at an indecent time, accused of trying to "ban guns", etc. That's not reasonable. Something's not working here. We can do better than what we are doing.
Not one thing you said holds water. Like always, ignorant emotional gun grabbing lefties have nothing tangible to offer.
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

viewtopic.php?p=60751#p60751

Okeefenokee
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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by Okeefenokee » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:22 pm

ooky wrote:
clubgop wrote: We had an AWB for 10 years, it did nothing.
Are you sure it did nothing? And if it did nothing are you sure NO regulation would do anything? First of all, it grandfathered in existing assault weapons, so criminologists who studied the effects said that there were indications is was beginning to have an effect, but was not in place long enough for it to realize its full effect. Second of all, it didn't address other types of guns with high capacity magazines, so people started using those more. Is it possible there is some better, more effective version of the law?
Koper, Jan. 14: The grandfathering provisions in the law meant that the effects of the law would occur only very gradually over time. It seems that those effects were still unfolding when the ban was lifted, and indeed they may not have been fully realized for several more years into the future even if the ban had been extended in 2004.

The evidence is too limited for any firm projections, but it does suggest that long term restrictions on these guns and magazines could potentially produce at least a small reduction in shootings.

Other studies, he said, have suggested attacks with semiautomatic guns – particularly those having large magazines – “result in more shots fired, persons hit and wounds inflicted than do attacks with other guns and magazines.” Another study of handgun attacks in Jersey City during the 1990s, he said, “estimated that incidents involving more than 10 shots fired accounted for between 4 and 5 percent of the total gunshot victims in the sample.”

Koper, Jan. 14: So, using that as a very tentative guide, that’s high enough to suggest that eliminating or greatly reducing crimes with these magazines could produce a small reduction in shootings, likely something less than 5 percent. Now we should note that effects of this magnitude could be hard to ever measure in any very definitive way, but they nonetheless could have nontrivial, notable benefits for society. Consider, for example, at our current level of our gun violence, achieving a 1 percent reduction in fatal and non-fatal criminal shootings would prevent approximately 650 shootings annually … And, of course having these sorts of guns, and particularly magazines, less accessible to offenders could make it more difficult for them to commit the sorts of mass shootings that we’ve seen in recent years.”
https://www.factcheck.org/2013/02/did-t ... -ban-work/

I'm curious what rights you think would be taken away from you - do you own bump stocks?
Jesus, enough with the bump stocks bullshit. No one here uses those stupid toys. If you really wanted to reduce harm, you would mandate every gun have one that couldn't be removed.
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

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clubgop
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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by clubgop » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:32 pm

Okeefenokee wrote:
ooky wrote:Ban bump stocks.

1. One rubber band can accomplish the effect of a bump stock, AND be even more accurate.

2. No matter what method you use, full auto makes a rifle less effective, not more.

Rescind the rule prohibiting research into gun violence without Congressional appropriation.

3. Thousands and thousands of pages of gun violence data are freely available online from hundreds of agencies around the world. There is nothing stopping anyone from conducting research into gun violence.

4. There are thousands of research studies on gun violence.

I'd say if it makes sense to need a state-issued licence to drive a car, that has to be periodically renewed, the same makes sense for guns. Note that the car system is not hard for the vast majority of people to obtain a licence, even when very new at driving cars, but you have to demonstrate basic competence, visual competency, knowledge of applicable traffic laws etc.

5. You only need a license to drive a car on public roads, and you also need a permit to carry a firearm in public.

Figure out a way to track purchases so you can identify people obviously amassing arsenals and law enforcement can check in on them - doesn't mean they can't amass the arsenals, but there should be a level of activity of buying guns and ammo that should be considered a red flag.

6. You can buy as many cars as you want without a background check.

7. You can buy as many cars as you want without being put on a watch list.

8. You can use a car to kill people.

9. One person with one hundred cars is no more dangerous than one person with one car. Same with guns.

For god's sake, the second I look at a drill bit cover on one browser, I suddenly get ads for drill bit covers on all my devices, there has to be some way this could work.

10. Yes, we are aware that the government has all the capacity in the world to spy on us.

11. I thought most of us were opposed to it.

12. Many of the past mass shooters were investigated by the FBI after throwing up red flags, and it didn't stop them.

I also like these suggestions from the NY Post:

https://nypost.com/2018/02/15/mr-presid ... bout-guns/
*Reinstate the federal assault-weapons ban, or at least revive its key features. Passed in 1994 but allowed to lapse 10 years later, that law prohibited the manufacture of semiautomatic firearms that bore certain features, like detachable magazines, that made them more dangerous.

13. The AWB did nothing to reduce gun violence.

14. "Assault Weapon," is a made up term.

15. "Assault Weapon," is a shibboleth for ignorant gun grabbers.

16. Assault rifles are military grade weapons not available to the general public. The term, "Assault Weapon," was chosen because it sounded like assault rifle, and would scare ignorant gun grabbers into thinking they were talking about military grade weaponry.

Perhaps most important, it also outlawed “large capacity” magazines. Critics argue that the ban did little good — but the fact is that the average toll from mass shootings has been growing. It’s surely worth trying to trim a casualty from the next killer’s total. Note, too, that the ban did no real harm. And it certainly didn’t lead the nation down the “slippery slope” toward eliminating other weapons, let alone a repeal of the Second Amendment, as the NRA and other Washington lobbyists warned.

17. Limiting magazine size does not make a weapon less lethal.

18. Soldiers in Vietnam had 10 round magazines, and still racked up colossal kill counts.

*Raise the age to buy firearms. While Nikolas Cruz’s background and motives are still being investigated, it’s already clear he had issues — and people knew it. But at 19, his record wasn’t enough to prevent a gun sale. Background checks are no good if you hardly have a background. Most states ban drinking under 21; there’s no reason not to similarly curb gun purchases. Ban gun sales to “fugitives from justice.” Such sales have long been illegal, but last year, Team Trump opted to exclude fugitives from the background-check database unless they crossed state lines; that removed 500,000 names from the list. Shouldn’t everyone who flees justice be kept from buying guns?

19. This is complete horseshit. From the ACLU,



*Target bump stocks. These let shooters turn semiautomatic weapons into ones that fire almost as rapidly as fully automatic ones, which are illegal. The idea of a ban got attention last year after the devices helped the Las Vegas shooter carry out his massacre — but soon died. Congress should act. If it won’t, Trump can order a bureaucratic ban: No one claims the Second Amendment protects these things.

20. Bump stocks make guns dramatically less effective. Know nothing gun grabbers continue to know nothing.

*Kill the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act. This bill would effectively impose some states’ loose gun-control laws on states with tighter ones; it’s arrogant and anti-federalist. It’s probably going nowhere — but the president can send a clear message by denouncing it. Why mess with places like New York City, which is already the safest large city in America?

21. Supremacy clause cuts both ways. If state law can't be undone by federal law, then Roe v Wade is out the window. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

No doubt other steps can help address the mass-shooting horror. We’re all for better reporting of threats and better security — but no one wants America’s schools turned into fortresses.

22. Plenty of people want armed guards at schools just like there are armed guards at malls, airports, and every other government building but schools.

Nothing can be sure to prevent another Parkland or Las Vegas or Sandy Hook. But that’s a poor excuse not to act. America needs to stand up to these attacks — to make it harder for those who shouldn’t have firearms to get them, to send a message that the nation is cracking down. If it’s possible to prevent or limit even a few tragedies, why not?
23. If it's possible to prevent or limit even a few tragedies, why not put everyone in the nation in prison? Why not?

Now, it doesn't need to be all of these, and to me, none of these specifically on their own are a hill to die on. But what's been happening is we keep reducing regulations (Concealed Carry Reciprocity, Trump's rollback last year of mental health restrictions),

24. CCR lives or dies with RvW

25. Mental health restrictions were not rolled back. See above.

and as these things keep happening and we all get upset, anyone in favor of ANY increase in regulation is shouted down, told they are politicizing the issue at an indecent time, accused of trying to "ban guns", etc. That's not reasonable. Something's not working here. We can do better than what we are doing.
Not one thing you said holds water. Like always, ignorant emotional gun grabbing lefties have nothing tangible to offer.
I agree with what you post here just one small thing on CCR. The ideal case is not Roe it is the recent gay marriage case. obergefell v. hodges

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clubgop
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Re: Another School Shooting

Post by clubgop » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:34 pm

Okeefenokee wrote:
ooky wrote:
clubgop wrote: We had an AWB for 10 years, it did nothing.
Are you sure it did nothing? And if it did nothing are you sure NO regulation would do anything? First of all, it grandfathered in existing assault weapons, so criminologists who studied the effects said that there were indications is was beginning to have an effect, but was not in place long enough for it to realize its full effect. Second of all, it didn't address other types of guns with high capacity magazines, so people started using those more. Is it possible there is some better, more effective version of the law?
Koper, Jan. 14: The grandfathering provisions in the law meant that the effects of the law would occur only very gradually over time. It seems that those effects were still unfolding when the ban was lifted, and indeed they may not have been fully realized for several more years into the future even if the ban had been extended in 2004.

The evidence is too limited for any firm projections, but it does suggest that long term restrictions on these guns and magazines could potentially produce at least a small reduction in shootings.

Other studies, he said, have suggested attacks with semiautomatic guns – particularly those having large magazines – “result in more shots fired, persons hit and wounds inflicted than do attacks with other guns and magazines.” Another study of handgun attacks in Jersey City during the 1990s, he said, “estimated that incidents involving more than 10 shots fired accounted for between 4 and 5 percent of the total gunshot victims in the sample.”

Koper, Jan. 14: So, using that as a very tentative guide, that’s high enough to suggest that eliminating or greatly reducing crimes with these magazines could produce a small reduction in shootings, likely something less than 5 percent. Now we should note that effects of this magnitude could be hard to ever measure in any very definitive way, but they nonetheless could have nontrivial, notable benefits for society. Consider, for example, at our current level of our gun violence, achieving a 1 percent reduction in fatal and non-fatal criminal shootings would prevent approximately 650 shootings annually … And, of course having these sorts of guns, and particularly magazines, less accessible to offenders could make it more difficult for them to commit the sorts of mass shootings that we’ve seen in recent years.”
https://www.factcheck.org/2013/02/did-t ... -ban-work/

I'm curious what rights you think would be taken away from you - do you own bump stocks?
Jesus, enough with the bump stocks bullshit. No one here uses those stupid toys. If you really wanted to reduce harm, you would mandate every gun have one that couldn't be removed.
Don't give them fucking ideas. :lol: