If Mexico is going to pay for the wall, why does Trump need money from Congress?

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Fife
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Re: If Mexico is going to pay for the wall, why does Trump need money from Congress?

Post by Fife » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:30 pm

heydaralon wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:21 pm
Fife wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:37 pm

False dichotomy fallacy -- and there's not a fucking thing you can say to dispute that, bub. Not one fucking thing.

"Muh Wall" just proves you're another sucker who doesn't know border security from a hole in the ground.

I've got border security in the bag, and I'm 100x times more serious about it than all of you wannabe cowboys.

GFY
How does that work? I mean, you hate every aspect of government from what I can tell. Fine. But take your ideology to its logical conclusion. If you hate government and all the things that entails, why not hate borders too? Most libertarians think borders are a human rights violation and that free movement is a human right. I would argue that many of your opinions about the state go farther than theirs in your contempt for all things it does. How is it that you are against every aspect of govt, but also want a deliniated border? If you do think borders are a necessity, how do you maintain them without the state you seem to hate? After all, lettuce will be cheaper if we let illegals pick it, and any attempts to curtail this are just the state strangling the rights of business to enhance their profits, the same way protectionism does.

Taxation is theft. Borders are paid for by taxation.

Wow. You know a lot about what you think about me.

Read my stuff sometime and not just the reviews.

:D

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Montegriffo
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Re: If Mexico is going to pay for the wall, why does Trump need money from Congress?

Post by Montegriffo » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:44 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:17 pm
Montegriffo wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:16 pm
Speaker to Animals wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:44 pm


He doesn't need a metric. We just had two ten thousand plus strong caravans attack our borders. There is another caravan organizing right now in Honduras.

Our entire welfare system is going broke.

The working class is ruined.

We don't need any more God damned Mexicans here taking jobs, not paying income tax on shit, committing crimes, and then living off our tax money via welfare fraud. This has to stop.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/0 ... next-week/
Really? How many of those 20,000 refugees crossed the border?
You know the answer to illegal immigrants working tax-free. Prosecute the employers. Why won't Republicans do that? Is it because of their sponsors in the business world not wanting to lose their cheap workforce?
If it makes you so mad go after the merchant cunts you hate so much and stop fucking demonising the immigrants like some petty dollar store Nazi.
THERE ARE OVER FIFTEEN MILLION OF THESE MOTHERFUCKERS RUNNING LOOSE IN OUR COUNTRY, BANKRUPTING US.

You have 66 million people in your country. Imagine if every 1 in 5 people you see every day was an illegal invader who is there living on your welfare, not paying into the system, and then taking your jobs because employers can get tax-free labor with probably no consequences.

You have no concept of the problem that besets us. Your nation has never allowed so many immigrants in.
No. I understand the problem and I sympathise. I just think your solution isn't the answer and is, in fact, just an electioneering vanity project.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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heydaralon
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Re: If Mexico is going to pay for the wall, why does Trump need money from Congress?

Post by heydaralon » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:50 pm

Fife wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:30 pm
heydaralon wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:21 pm
Fife wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:37 pm

False dichotomy fallacy -- and there's not a fucking thing you can say to dispute that, bub. Not one fucking thing.

"Muh Wall" just proves you're another sucker who doesn't know border security from a hole in the ground.

I've got border security in the bag, and I'm 100x times more serious about it than all of you wannabe cowboys.

GFY
How does that work? I mean, you hate every aspect of government from what I can tell. Fine. But take your ideology to its logical conclusion. If you hate government and all the things that entails, why not hate borders too? Most libertarians think borders are a human rights violation and that free movement is a human right. I would argue that many of your opinions about the state go farther than theirs in your contempt for all things it does. How is it that you are against every aspect of govt, but also want a deliniated border? If you do think borders are a necessity, how do you maintain them without the state you seem to hate? After all, lettuce will be cheaper if we let illegals pick it, and any attempts to curtail this are just the state strangling the rights of business to enhance their profits, the same way protectionism does.

Taxation is theft. Borders are paid for by taxation.

Wow. You know a lot about what you think about me.

Read my stuff sometime and not just the reviews.

:D
Instead of being cryptic, why don't you tell me what I got wrong? I just laid out my critique of what I perceive to be your worldview. If you don't think that I did a good job, show me how to reconcile the contradiction between belief in borders and a dislike for the state.
Shikata ga nai

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Fife
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Re: If Mexico is going to pay for the wall, why does Trump need money from Congress?

Post by Fife » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:56 pm

My record is thorough.

heydaralon
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Re: If Mexico is going to pay for the wall, why does Trump need money from Congress?

Post by heydaralon » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:59 pm

good point. Thanks for clearing that up.
Shikata ga nai

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Fife
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Re: If Mexico is going to pay for the wall, why does Trump need money from Congress?

Post by Fife » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:32 am

heydaralon wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:59 pm
good point. Thanks for clearing that up.
I don't mind useful exchange; I live for it. However, I don't get off on middle school "gotcha" crap, which makes up about 90% of what goes on around here. I was rereading this thread this morning and I feel dumb for even responding to your trolling.

But, since I opened the door on myself, here's yet another piece on the topic, from HHH. I've probably posted this before here somewhere.

If you want to know about the state's legitimate obligations to protect the private property rights of its own citizens, read the whole thing.

The Case for Free Trade and Restricted Immigration
However, with respect to the movement of people, the same government will have to do more in order to fulfill its protective function than merely permit events to take their own course, because people, unlike products, possess a will and can migrate. Accordingly, population movements, unlike product shipments, are not per se mutually beneficial events because they are not always —necessarily and invariably—the result of an agreement between a specific receiver and sender. There can be shipments (immigrants) without willing domestic recipients. In this case, immigrants are foreign invaders, and immigration represents an act of invasion. Surely, a government’s basic protective function includes the prevention of foreign invasions and the expulsion of foreign invaders. Just as surely then, in order to do so and subject immigrants to the same requirement as imports (of having been invited by domestic residents), this government cannot rightfully allow the kind of free immigration advocated by most free traders. Just imagine again that the U.S. and Switzerland opened their borders to whomever wanted to come—provided only that immigrants be excluded from all welfare entitlements, which would be reserved for U.S. and Swiss citizens. Apart from the sociological problem of thus creating two distinct classes of domestic residents and thus causing severe social tensions, there is also little doubt about the outcome of this experiment in the present world. The result would be less drastic and less immediate than under the scenario of unconditional free immigration, but it too would amount to a massive foreign invasion and ultimately lead to the destruction of American and Swiss civilization. Thus, in order to fulfill its primary function as protector of its citizens and their domestic property, a high-wage-area government cannot follow an immigration policy of laissez-passer, but must engage in restrictive measures.

From the recognition that proponents of free trade and markets cannot advocate free immigration without falling into inconsistency and contradiction, and hence, that immigration must —logically—be restricted, it is but a small step to the further recognition of how it must be restricted. As a matter of fact, all high-wage-area governments presently restrict immigration in one way or another. Nowhere is immigration “free,” unconditionally or conditionally. Yet the restrictions imposed on immigration by the U.S. and by Switzerland, for instance, are quite different. What restrictions should then exist? Or, more precisely, what immigration restrictions is a free trader and free marketeer logically compelled to uphold and promote? The guiding principle of a high-wage-area country’s immigration policy follows from the insight that immigration, to be free in the same sense as trade is free, must be invited immigration. The details follow from the further elucidation and exemplification of the concept of invitation vs. invasion and forced integration.

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: If Mexico is going to pay for the wall, why does Trump need money from Congress?

Post by Speaker to Animals » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:36 am

"free trade"

LMFAO

They are still using that lying slogan. It's not free and it's not trade.

Maybe we should just export libertarians, globalists, and neocons to Latin America so they can skip all the intermediate steps and just go straight to living in the third world where everybody wants to rob/kill white people.

Edit:

Belay that. Libertarians shouldn't be expelled to Latin America. They really need to get air dropped into Somalia and/or the Congo. Congo is supposed to be very warm and inviting this time of year.

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Fife
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Re: If Mexico is going to pay for the wall, why does Trump need money from Congress?

Post by Fife » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:44 am

Case in point.

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: If Mexico is going to pay for the wall, why does Trump need money from Congress?

Post by Speaker to Animals » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:47 am

You'd wake up from the tranquilizer rounds, lying on a pile of debris strewn across the jungle floor, and the first thing you'd see when your vision cleared:

Image

"Welcome to the Congo, nigga"

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Fife
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Re: If Mexico is going to pay for the wall, why does Trump need money from Congress?

Post by Fife » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:50 am

Great argument.

Speaking of Congo, it reminds one of your vision for the US run by warlords and union fatasses, btw.