Tax Plan For Aristocracy

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StCapps
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Re: Tax Plan For Aristocracy

Post by StCapps » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:33 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:
jediuser598 wrote:
StCapps wrote:I would advise that you filter your moral and ideological considerations through practicality. Wanting to live in a utopia, doesn't mean you get to live in one, human nature often gets in the way, so plan accordingly.
We're not talking about me personally.

We're just talking about the definition of Real Politik. Real Politik is acting, and not being restrained by moral or ideological considerations. Real Politik is often at odds with moral and ideological considerations. They're often mutually exclusive. "Hey we shouldn't do this, that is highly likely to produce this beneficial result for me or mine, because it's not a moral thing to do." The Real Politik doesn't accept that argument.

The idea is to actually minimize suffering by not following policies that, while superficially seem morally appropriate, often lead to worse outcomes than had you taken the immoral but effective action. I think a political philosopher defending it might actually point out all the instances that following the moral but less effective strategy leads to a worse outcome (more evil) than the immoral strategy.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. You can be practical without being heartless or immoral, just because realpolitik and idealism can be mutually exclusive doesn't mean they always are.
*yip*

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Tax Plan For Aristocracy

Post by Speaker to Animals » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:23 pm

Idealism means something different. You are referring to something better described as moral realism.

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Re: Tax Plan For Aristocracy

Post by Okeefenokee » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:46 pm

Martin Hash wrote:No one's opinion counts but mine.

p.s. Well, entertainers, they get to have opinions.
Alan Jackson is across the street right now.
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

viewtopic.php?p=60751#p60751

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Re: Tax Plan For Aristocracy

Post by Okeefenokee » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:15 pm

Image

GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

viewtopic.php?p=60751#p60751

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StCapps
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Re: Tax Plan For Aristocracy

Post by StCapps » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:09 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:Idealism means something different. You are referring to something better described as moral realism.
The practice of forming or pursuing ideals, especially unrealistically.

"Especially" does not mean "only" or "requires". Sure moral realism is a more fitting definition for what I am describing, more precise, but not all idealism is the unrealistic kind.
/shrrugs
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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Tax Plan For Aristocracy

Post by Speaker to Animals » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:17 pm

StCapps wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:Idealism means something different. You are referring to something better described as moral realism.
The practice of forming or pursuing ideals, especially unrealistically.

"Especially" does not mean "only" or "requires". Sure moral realism is a more fitting definition for what I am describing, more precise, but not all idealism is the unrealistic kind.
/shrrugs

It means something else in the context of philosophy.

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Re: Tax Plan For Aristocracy

Post by StCapps » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:05 am

Speaker to Animals wrote:It means something else in the context of philosophy.
Lots of words have more than one meaning and can used be used in different contexts, idealism is no different.
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Re: Tax Plan For Aristocracy

Post by Speaker to Animals » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:10 am

StCapps wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:It means something else in the context of philosophy.
Lots of words have more than one meaning and can used be used in different contexts, idealism is no different.

When you are in the context of philosophy, idealism means something specific.

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StCapps
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Re: Tax Plan For Aristocracy

Post by StCapps » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:20 am

Speaker to Animals wrote:When you are in the context of philosophy, idealism means something specific.
Right and in a different contexts it has a broader meaning. Why do you always want words to only mean one if it's definitions, and not the others? It's fucking weird, you want words to mean less than they actually mean, like you are too dumb to understand the broadest possible definition of a term, only most specific definition is allowed with you, it's really tiresome.
/shrugs
Last edited by StCapps on Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tax Plan For Aristocracy

Post by Speaker to Animals » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:21 am

And in the context in which you were discussing it, it has a single word sense.
In philosophy, idealism is the group of philosophies which assert that reality, or reality as we can know it, is fundamentally mental, mentally constructed, or otherwise immaterial. Epistemologically, idealism manifests as a skepticism about the possibility of knowing any mind-independent thing.

In contrast to materialism, idealism concedes the primary of consciousness, which means consciousness exists before material, consciousness creates and determines material, not vice versa. Idealism theories believe consciousness is the origin of the world and aim to explain the existing world by mental causes.
Last edited by Speaker to Animals on Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.