The Destroyer of All Western Values

[heydaralon]

If that kind of thing is happening, it wouldn't surprise me at all if contractors were inflating costs, or possibly making up entire orders, and charging the government, even I though don't have any evidence for this.

Contractor fraud exists, but, how is it motivation for war? No "truckloads" of cash, nickle and dime crime, can't be reported as profit, doesn't go to shareholder/stock price, how would it benefit Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, for starting the war? They don't cash in, why would they want to enable criminals pocketing taxpayer dollars?

I wasn't arguing that contractor fraud was a motivation for the war. Personally, I do think the people who made the call for war ieL Bush Wolfowitz were motivated by ideology. I think they believed that they were on the right side of history. But underneath them the lesser players, the contractors, and businessmen seized the opportunity to make money off the conflict. To me the war doesn't make enough sense to be about oil or anything like that. Earlier when I brought up Cheney and Haliburton I was just pointing out that he had a financial motivation for the war as well, though I don't think that's why he supported it.

[Smitty-48]

If that kind of thing is happening, it wouldn't surprise me at all if contractors were inflating costs, or possibly making up entire orders, and charging the government, even I though don't have any evidence for this.

Contractor fraud exists, but, how is it motivation for war? No "truckloads" of cash, nickle and dime crime, can't be reported as profit, doesn't go to shareholder/stock price, how would it benefit Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, for starting the war? They don't cash in, why would they want to enable criminals pocketing taxpayer dollars?

I wasn't arguing that contractor fraud was a motivation for the war. Personally, I do think the people who made the call for war ieL Bush Wolfowitz were motivated by ideology. I think they believed that they were on the right side of history. But underneath them the lesser players, the contractors, and businessmen seized the opportunity to make money off the conflict. To me the war doesn't make enough sense to be about oil or anything like that. Earlier when I brought up Cheney and Haliburton I was just pointing out that he had a financial motivation for the war as well, though I don't think that's why he supported it.

I don't see Cheney's financial angle, received severance package from Haliburton before the war, divested himself of stock options to avoid conflict of interest, didn't actually make a dime on the war, in fact, since he gave up his job at Haliburton and felt the need to divest himself of his stock options, he technically lost money.

[heydaralon]

Contractor fraud exists, but, how is it motivation for war? No "truckloads" of cash, nickle and dime crime, can't be reported as profit, doesn't go to shareholder/stock price, how would it benefit Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, for starting the war? They don't cash in, why would they want to enable criminals pocketing taxpayer dollars?

I wasn't arguing that contractor fraud was a motivation for the war. Personally, I do think the people who made the call for war ieL Bush Wolfowitz were motivated by ideology. I think they believed that they were on the right side of history. But underneath them the lesser players, the contractors, and businessmen seized the opportunity to make money off the conflict. To me the war doesn't make enough sense to be about oil or anything like that. Earlier when I brought up Cheney and Haliburton I was just pointing out that he had a financial motivation for the war as well, though I don't think that's why he supported it.

I don't see Cheney's financial angle, received severance package from Haliburton before the war, divested himself of stock options to avoid conflict of interest, didn't actually make a dime on the war, in fact, since he gave up his job at Haliburton and felt the need to divest himself of his stock options, he technically lost money.

Really?
I stand corrected then.
Its not illegal for presidents to own stock while in office right? I know Congress can. That seems like an odd move on Cheney's part.

[Smitty-48]

Cheney didn't have to divest, he chose to divest, to avoid the perception of a conflict of interest, 400,000 stock options, Haliburton stock went up 6 times between 02' and 08', would have been net 2.4 million stock options; signed legal agreement to turn it all over to charity.

[ssu]

Why do you think Haliburton made truckloads of money? 7-9% margin is "truckloads"? Meh.

The profits aren't made for the shareholders. They are happy with the normal return on investment that they would get somewhere else. Those who make the real money are a small group.

The Vietnam war made Haliburton the biggest US construction Company during that time. Tells how lucrative these kind of base-building contracts are.

Haliburton got btw. it's contracts without bidding during the Iraq war. Yet have to be said there's not many companies that could do the job that Haliburton does. Hence likely Haliburton would have gotten the deals in the end too. The only thing different might have been how much in debt the US is now.

But of course, there was a lot of corruption in the Iraqi rebuilding effort, partly because of the ineptness of the whole Bremer-lead organization, but partly because this is the way Washington lead by lobbyists works. Lot's of kickbacks. But then the Iraqi's themselves are totally used to corruption and naturally the Iraqi politicians put up to the pedestal to lead the country got rich too.

If anybody is interested in how basically corrupt the whole thing was, or "business-as-usual", here's a fine documentary film about the Iraqi War and those companies who profited from it:

[heydaralon]

Why do you think Haliburton made truckloads of money? 7-9% margin is "truckloads"? Meh.

The profits aren't made for the shareholders. They are happy with the normal return on investment that they would get somewhere else. Those who make the real money are a small group.

The Vietnam war made Haliburton the biggest US construction Company during that time. Tells how lucrative these kind of base-building contracts are.

Haliburton got btw. it's contracts without bidding during the Iraq war. Yet have to be said there's not many companies that could do the job that Haliburton does. Hence likely Haliburton would have gotten the deals in the end too. The only thing different might have been how much in debt the US is now.

But of course, there was a lot of corruption in the Iraqi rebuilding effort, partly because of the ineptness of the whole Bremer-lead organization, but partly because this is the way Washington lead by lobbyists works. Lot's of kickbacks. But then the Iraqi's themselves are totally used to corruption and naturally the Iraqi politicians put up to the pedestal to lead the country got rich too.

If anybody is interested in how basically corrupt the whole thing was, or "business-as-usual", here's a fine documentary film about the Iraqi War and those companies who profited from it:

I read Imperial Life in the Emerald City. Bremer Iraq was an abortion clinic dumpster fire.

[Smitty-48]

Why do you think Haliburton made truckloads of money? 7-9% margin is "truckloads"? Meh.

The profits aren't made for the shareholders. They are happy with the normal return on investment that they would get somewhere else. Those who make the real money are a small group.

The Vietnam war made Haliburton the biggest US construction Company during that time. Tells how lucrative these kind of base-building contracts are.

Haliburton got btw. it's contracts without bidding during the Iraq war. Yet have to be said there's not many companies that could do the job that Haliburton does. Hence likely Haliburton would have gotten the deals in the end too. The only thing different might have been how much in debt the US is now.

But of course, there was a lot of corruption in the Iraqi rebuilding effort, partly because of the ineptness of the whole Bremer-lead organization, but partly because this is the way Washington lead by lobbyists works. Lot's of kickbacks. But then the Iraqi's themselves are totally used to corruption and naturally the Iraqi politicians put up to the pedestal to lead the country got rich too.

If anybody is interested in how basically corrupt the whole thing was, or "business-as-usual", here's a fine documentary film about the Iraqi War and those companies who profited from it:

How is Haliburton different from any other defense contractor? Advanced Contract Award Notice; no bid contracts for defense contractors are common.

[Smitty-48]

That documentary was made by Robert Greenwald at Brave New Films, it's a "progressive non profit" to "educate, influence and empower viewers to take action around issues that matter.”

It's Leftist propaganda, totally biased ideologically motivated agenda driven source.

[SuburbanFarmer]

rolls eyes and turns away

You don't think ideology plays a role in important decisions? You are more of an economics guy I take it?

Everything is economics. It's sold to the rubes with ideology.

There are certainly believers in every administration, and once that steamroller starts moving, it infects the Deciders like a plague. Those that aren't already on the money-train will either be brought in, or convinced of the "Deus Vult" by those who are.

It's a sort of microcosm of any large-scale human clusterfuck. Those who are in it for a payout are going to work in a moral justification for whatever-they-want. Some will believe it, others will get in on the payout.

[C-Mag]

The Vietnam war made Haliburton the biggest US construction Company during that time.

Haven't watched the video, but I know a little about Brown & Root/KBR. George Rufus Brown was the guy that made it all happen. Got established under FDR, picked out LBJ in the 40's and backed him, had all kinds of schemes to funnel him money. LBJ owed him big time. Brown & Root got paid back during the LBJ Admin.