Finland - No Homeless

[DBTrek]

Libertarianism is a harsh master.

Native Americans, Spartans, and Chinese aren’t libertarian. Feel free to join one of those societies and demand you be cared for while also refusing to contribute to the community.

It’s not political, it’s survival. Not even hard rules - be willing to give back. That’s all it takes in most societies. Apparently that’s too much of a burden for the numales in this thread though.

[DBTrek]

Tribes don't help the weak or suffering? And we are living in tribes now? Where's your nationalism or civic responsibility and honor?

How you know your opponent has nothing ... straight to emotional appeal.

“I can’t justify burdening the populace with those who voluntarily choose to be non-contributors, so instead I’ll invoke honor and civic responsibility because my only hope is to fake some kind of moral high ground!”

[Martin Hash]

Libertarianism is a harsh master.

Native Americans, Spartans, and Chinese aren’t libertarian. Feel free to join one of those societies and demand you be cared for while also refusing to contribute to the community.

It’s not political, it’s survival. Not even hard rules - be willing to give back. That’s all it takes in most societies. Apparently that’s too much of a burden for the numales in this thread though.

Native Americans? Spartans? Chinese? These are what you aspire too? How about the Dark Ages? I bet they didn’t give a rip either.

[ssu]

Well, this is a country where the few beggars in the center of Helsinki (the only place you find them) are gypsies imported from Romania.

Yep, they provide free housing and consider it as a human right for a person have a home. Nannystate provides you with a small flat in the city or larger house in the countryside, pays the rent and so on. Craddle to the grave. Just like unemployment benefits are paid as long as it takes. And a large portion of all this is covered with deficit spending.

The positive side is that you cannot say that anybody is "forced" to crime. Criminals here indeed want to be criminals. Peddlers are nonexistent also.

The real bad side effect is what I would call apathy, officially is called syrjäytyminen, alienation. You see, if you don't have to work, you aren't going to be on the street without being at work, then at some time you stop looking for work. Works wonders on your self esteem when you have never worked in your life! About 70 000 (out of 5,1 million) under 30 years old young people, mostly males, are alienated and likely will not get a job. Ever. They cost the country about 1,4 billion euros.

The lousy thing is that if you get a low paid job, it might likely be then worse for you as all the aid then stops and you just end up with actually less money in your pocket and less time to play your Nintendo or whatever.

Perhaps it works like drugs in America or vodka in Russia. Otherwise angry young males that could be a political force just become apathetic hangers-by who don't care shit about the World around them.

[GloryofGreece]

Tribes don't help the weak or suffering? And we are living in tribes now? Where's your nationalism or civic responsibility and honor?

How you know your opponent has nothing ... straight to emotional appeal.

“I can’t justify burdening the populace with those who voluntarily choose to be non-contributors, so instead I’ll invoke honor and civic responsibility because my only hope is to fake some kind of moral high ground!”

How do you know someone believes in nothing? He holds on to cynicism and libertarianism (glorified individuality over the community)
I can justify "burdening" citizens with community/cooperation all day. The individual and the collective are not all good or all bad. There has to be balance. I think you're way to the side of the individual and against any form of cooperation/community b/c its "repressive" and you can choose to see it that way. I'd call it deluded. You'd call it "reality".

[DBTrek]

Native Americans? Spartans? Chinese? These are what you aspire too? How about the Dark Ages? I bet they didn’t give a rip either?

... says the guy aspiring to subsidize narcissism, sociopathy, and dependency, as long as someone else is doing the work and footing the bill.


Super enlightened of you. How many savior points does your social circle award you for such high-mindedness?

[DBTrek]

How do you know someone believes in nothing? He holds on to cynicism and libertarianism (glorified individuality over the community)

I’m actually looking out for the community by suggesting it not overly concern itself with those who choose not to contribute but demand to be supported. You, on the other hand, are engaging in emotional masturbation for your own low-level dopamine hit, out of entirely selfish reasons.

[Martin Hash]

A logical argument can be made for trimming the tail off the Bell Curve: for example, you could convince me right now to forcefully sterilize Huntington’s, Soylent Green the old, Final Solution people who will never get out of prison. There’s good cases to be made for these actions and more. Don’t stop at the “homeless.”

[GloryofGreece]

How do you know someone believes in nothing? He holds on to cynicism and libertarianism (glorified individuality over the community)

I’m actually looking out for the community by suggesting it not overly concern itself with those who choose not to contribute but demand to be supported. You, on the other hand, are engaging in emotional masturbation for your own low-level dopamine hit, out of entirely selfish reasons.

Yeah I could be just clinging to what makes me feel better or I could actually believe in helping people down in the gutter. That's possible to. All homelessness is not simply people that don't want to work. That single-mindedness can also be said to help you believe in what your saying as well. Many people don't "chose not to contribute". Some do. Its a multifaceted issue like most things that involve humans, no?

[DBTrek]

You want to help them - don’t treat them like expensive pets. Treat them like humans who are required to give back in order to receive. Feed their souls, not their sickness.

That will help.