Daniel Shaver shooting

[Smitty-48]

Probably didn't respond well to the officer screaming orders at the top of his lungs and threatening to kill him.

That's doctrinal, they're trained to do that, aggressive and take control, when they shout "Do this now, OR WE WILL SHOOT YOU!", that really is your last warning, you're standing on the brink then.

And partial compliance, creeping towards them, playing like you don't understand? That's a red line, that's how cops get killed, so that is the "launch on warning" zone.

[nmoore63]

The cop gave bad orders.
Unless he could show training that justified it, to the slammer.

Same way if a doctor kills somebody because of negligent error.
Same way if an engineer designs a bad airplane.

Certain tasks are done by professionals for a reason.

No excuse.

[Smitty-48]

Innocent until proven beyond a reasonable doubt, manslaughter perhaps, but homicide with malice? It's certainly not black and white, in terms of mens rea.

[DBTrek]

What was wrong with the orders? The lady seemed to pull it off ok.

[Smitty-48]

They charged him with 2nd degree murder, which is mens rea for malice, that's a high bar to get over, in that particular situation.

Need evidence that the cop killed him maliciously, rather than just misjudged the situation.

[Speaker to Animals]

We live in a society where innocent people are shot dead by psychopathic cops for failing ridiculous Simon Says games, and a lot of folks will defend the cop.

Innocent people should not die for failing Simon Says, especially when the instructions are absurdly difficult to accomplish.

[DBTrek]

We live in a society where innocent people are shot dead by psychopathic cops for failing ridiculous Simon Says games, and a lot of folks will defend the cop.

Innocent people should not die for failing Simon Says, especially when the instructions are absurdly difficult to accomplish.

Feel free to respond to the random guy waving guns out windows calls and we’ll see how you do.

The instructions were clear and easy to understand. They weren’t followed.

[nmoore63]

Innocent until proven beyond a reasonable doubt, manslaughter perhaps, but homicide with malice? It's certainly not black and white, in terms of mens rea.

I am fine with manslaughter.

(or whatever else they charge an engineer who's plan engineer fails, or a doctor who negligently fucks up)

[Speaker to Animals]

What was wrong with the orders? The lady seemed to pull it off ok.

Not sure why you'd defend this. Not a great hill to die on.

[Smitty-48]

Once the guy started crawling towards them and being sketchy with what he was doing with his hands, reasonable doubt as to malicious intent, "poorly executed takedown" would be manslaughter nor murder.