Cultural Effects of Loss of Labor

[SuburbanFarmer]

@Bjorn - I don't disagree, but the strength of a national economy has little or nothing to do with how hard its workers work. It's almost exclusively about military and diplomatic strength.

[The Conservative]

There was a time where you were allowed to succeed, allowed to grow with a company, advance, etc... today, most people are throw-away products... yes, products... not people.

There is a reason you are given an identification number, and a login. It's so they can dehumanize you, so you are easier to fire, or whatever they choose to do.

It's not just about kids today not willing to do manual labor, it's also about how today's employers don't show any form of loyalty to their employees either. It is rare to find a company that cares, and not fake care either, companies like Apple, UPS, and Walmart fake care.

The company I work for is rare, it actually cares about its employees. They allow us to work from home when needed, they understand that family comes first and allow us to take our kids if need be to doctor appointments, etc...

The company I work for understands that if you treat your employees well, they will work harder and do more if asked later... of course no company will ever not fire a person either, so... take what you can with a grain of salt I guess...

Even with that said, kids today won't do manual labor because their parents and their schools tell them they are above that...when in reality working in a union job would probably give these kids not only humility, but work ethic. (not to mention a massive culture shock)

[PartyOf5]

you are going to need $50,000> to afford a car, and two bedroom apartment. That will not give you enough to reasonable expectations of saving money. A $15 an hour which for now more than minimum wages jobs nets just $31,000.

The solution to that equation isn't to give burger flippers $15+ an hour. The question that needs to be answered is why things like rent and owning a car costs so much in the Bay Area. Clothing imported from China should be bout the same price throughout the US. It's things like rent and taxes and fees that are so jacked up in certain areas that make people think the solution is to just give everybody more money.

[BjornP]

@Bjorn - I don't disagree, but the strength of a national economy has little or nothing to do with how hard its workers work. It's almost exclusively about military and diplomatic strength.

That military is paid for by....?

[PartyOf5]

There was a time where you were allowed to succeed, allowed to grow with a company, advance, etc... today, most people are throw-away products... yes, products... not people.

There is a reason you are given an identification number, and a login. It's so they can dehumanize you, so you are easier to fire, or whatever they choose to do.

It's not just about kids today not willing to do manual labor, it's also about how today's employers don't show any form of loyalty to their employees either. It is rare to find a company that cares, and not fake care either, companies like Apple, UPS, and Walmart fake care.

This does go both ways. Younger workers are also more willing to job hop as their way of working up to better pay or a better position. Both sides are mercenaries. I've seen as much of that as I have seen companies screw over their employees.

One issue I see when trying to hire workers (in IT at least) is that the "Millennial" aged ones mostly want to be Chiefs and not Indians. Too many today want to walk in the door and act like the guy in the video. They want to be giving orders and brainstorming all day. Thing is, even with all the automation and tools we have to make labor easier today, mundane, hard work still needs to get done. I've been in many a meeting where 8 of the 10 people in the room are there to simply "come up with the plan" in 1 hour, while the other 2 are the ones left spending 120 hours carrying out that plan. Most businesses are too top heavy.

[The Conservative]

There was a time where you were allowed to succeed, allowed to grow with a company, advance, etc... today, most people are throw-away products... yes, products... not people.

There is a reason you are given an identification number, and a login. It's so they can dehumanize you, so you are easier to fire, or whatever they choose to do.

It's not just about kids today not willing to do manual labor, it's also about how today's employers don't show any form of loyalty to their employees either. It is rare to find a company that cares, and not fake care either, companies like Apple, UPS, and Walmart fake care.

This does go both ways. Younger workers are also more willing to job hop as their way of working up to better pay or a better position. Both sides are mercenaries. I've seen as much of that as I have seen companies screw over their employees.

One issue I see when trying to hire workers (in IT at least) is that the "Millennial" aged ones mostly want to be Chiefs and not Indians. Too many today want to walk in the door and act like the guy in the video. They want to be giving orders and brainstorming all day. Thing is, even with all the automation and tools we have to make labor easier today, mundane, hard work still needs to get done. I've been in many a meeting where 8 of the 10 people in the room are there to simply "come up with the plan" in 1 hour, while the other 2 are the ones left spending 120 hours carrying out that plan. Most businesses are too top heavy.

Almost all companies are top heavy...

As for being a Chief and not an Indian, I agree... It took me a good long time to get into a job where I am now a Chief... I spent decades in the IT field... kids today, and yes I can say kids, since a good portion going onto the work force are young enough to be my kid... don't want to work years to get the experience. They think that jumping job to job is a good thing, when in reality a lot of companies don't look that way...

But what do I know... I've had my fill of ups and downs... and for now I'm riding the wave up this time around...

[apeman]

All this is true. I grew up middle class, white collar worker area in CT. I was one of the only kids in my class with a paper route, one of the only who cut laws, etc.

I banged nails framing houses during summers in college despite being a top nerd, everyone thought it was weird and that I should have some useless unpaid internship instead.

As a ski bum for 3 winters tahoe, I held like 20 jobs and learned how hard it is to scrape by.

So when I finally went to law school -- where you are directly competing with the other students for the all-important class rank -- how could these soft, whiny, wimpy, excuse-making, trust fundy kids who never held a real job possibly out-compete me? They couldn't.

In fact, my fellow students still complain daily on facebook about how unfair life is, yet I still see no evidence of them ever having gotten their hands dirty, or even over come a single professional hardship. They are over-educated professional losers.

[SuburbanFarmer]

@Bjorn - I don't disagree, but the strength of a national economy has little or nothing to do with how hard its workers work. It's almost exclusively about military and diplomatic strength.

That military is paid for by....?

Whatever their fiat currency can be manipulated to pay for after corruption. I'll be generous and speculate that a real "can do attitude" will generate some 1% better GDP, but it's irrelevant on the national scale.

Easiest examples would be anything in the third world. Those people often work like animals compared to westerners, yet their national economies remain shit.

[The Conservative]

My son will know what it means to get his hands dirty. He will play in puddles, dirt, create forts, and learn what it means to earn money using his hands by doing chores at home, and then latter working...

I refuse to let my son grow up being a pansy... I want him to live hard, play harder, and thrive... I want him to see a problem and not be afraid to get his hands dirty to get the solution... if that makes sense?

[SuburbanFarmer]

Almost all companies are top heavy...

As for being a Chief and not an Indian, I agree... It took me a good long time to get into a job where I am now a Chief... I spent decades in the IT field... kids today, and yes I can say kids, since a good portion going onto the work force are young enough to be my kid... don't want to work years to get the experience. They think that jumping job to job is a good thing, when in reality a lot of companies don't look that way...

But what do I know... I've had my fill of ups and downs... and for now I'm riding the wave up this time around...

The company I work for now has no less than 30 VPs, and probably 100 AVPs. It's a fucking trainwreck.

I'm going to point out the contradiction here, implying that employees should stick with a single company for decades, while also pointing out that companies don't give a fuck about their employees. How does it make sense for the employee not to job-hop, in order to get the all-important annual raise that companies don't bother doing anymore? You might get there by simply outlasting everybody in your area, but is that more or less profitable than slowly raising income via the job market?

My plan (and most workers, it seems) revolves around hopping upwards until I get there, with an increasing paycheck each time. Seems the only rational choice, at this point.

My son will know what it means to get his hands dirty. He will play in puddles, dirt, create forts, and learn what it means to earn money using his hands by doing chores at home, and then latter working...

I refuse to let my son grow up being a pansy... I want him to live hard, play harder, and thrive... I want him to see a problem and not be afraid to get his hands dirty to get the solution... if that makes sense?

Same for me. I don't know if I'd hold out on him quite as much as my dad does, but I certainly won't pave the way for him. I'll administer a good kick in the ass for lazy behavior, and catch him whenever he falls.