Social Justice Warriors Thread

[Speaker to Animals]

Fallacy my balls. You were the one that used them as an example of why ethnically or culturally diverse people couldn't be part of the same civilization.

You can walk back that little bit of inanity any time.

These are two completely different categories you try to conflate while ignoring/dismissing the differences when those differences totally make a distinction with respect to your argument.

Italian and German immigrants were able to integrate and become Americans because they shared the same race, religion, and both came from the same civilization. That's not the same thing at all.

In fact, I don't see you making the same distinction amongst the Mexicans. "Mexican" means about the same thing to the Mesoamericans as "American" once meant to European peoples who migrated to North America. Mexicans consist of the remnants of northern peoples like the Mexica, Tarascans, Tlaxcalan, Zapotec, etc. There certainly exists a degree of integration between them, with populations of completely indigenous peoples from those groups, and then a lot of people who are mixed together (Mestizos) in the same way that we are all mixed together (e.g. Italian-Irish). Then they have several groups of Mayans spanning from Tabasco to the Guatemalan border. But you don't go and say, yeah, Americans and Mexicans go together just like Aztecs and Zapotec. We are a totally separate and distinct group of human beings. We don't actually share that much in common.

I could use any of dozens of other examples from other regions in the world. That kind of category of people is not the same thing as taking completely unrelated humans and tossing them together in some box you call a multicultural city. To argue that one thing translates to the other is totally fallacious.

Were the Germans a distinct group of human beings when they couldn't participate in Rome? Were they not the same ethnicity then because 'Europe' wasn't a thing yet?

Pretty sure Europeans were still kicking the shit out of each other and chalking it up to their distinct cultures and races while still integrating in America. Pretty sure they were having religious wars, speaking different languages, having different values and being pretty distinct until very recently.

Me and my German kin have been mixing with Mesoamericans for quiet sometime, but we haven't been with any filthy Italians in many generations. Guess I can't be part of the same country as them Jersey boys.

The category error is yours, not mine.

The Germans literally destroyed Rome. Next question.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

The Germans literally destroyed Rome. Next question.

So Germans and Italians aren't part of the same ethnicity?

You are all over the map here.

[Speaker to Animals]

The Germans literally destroyed Rome. Next question.

So Germans and Italians aren't part of the same ethnicity?

You are all over the map here.

Uh.. no.. you are the one all over the map here, and time and space too. Are we talking about antiquity or the modern era? You are mixing all kinds of disparate categories to make a case you know you cannot make.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

The Germans literally destroyed Rome. Next question.

So Germans and Italians aren't part of the same ethnicity?

You are all over the map here.

Uh.. no.. you are the one all over the map here, and time and space too. Are we talking about antiquity or the modern era? You are mixing all kinds of disparate categories to make a case you know you cannot make.

They became the same ethnicity then?

Good, how does that process work, and why would North and Mesoamericans be immune to that process?

I am only mixing categories as fast as you arbitrarily invent them.

[Speaker to Animals]

So Germans and Italians aren't part of the same ethnicity?

You are all over the map here.

Uh.. no.. you are the one all over the map here, and time and space too. Are we talking about antiquity or the modern era? You are mixing all kinds of disparate categories to make a case you know you cannot make.

They became the same ethnicity then?

Good, how does that process work, and why would North and Mesoamericans be immune to that process?

I am only mixing categories as fast as you arbitrarily invent them.

No, genius. You keep making the category mistake and you blabber on and on about it whenever I point out that these are two completely different things. The only thing we have in common with, for example, a bunch of Arabs is that we all belong to the same species. That's pretty much it. They differ from us in religion, values, disposition towards form of government, liberties, freedoms. Everything. We share absolutely nothing in common with them. This is a completely different phenomenon from taking people from two different but related nations of people who share the same race, history, religion, values, etc.

Then you doubled down with yet another category mistake by comparing ancient Germanic barbarians with classical Romans, which ironically decimates your entire argument, but you are too dense to realize it. Multiculturalism is EXACTLY what the Romans instituted to make way for all the German tribes. Guess what? It did not work out.

[Speaker to Animals]

Honestly, the main reason I have become so skeptical of civic nationalism is that people can't even honestly defend it. I think they know they are being dishonest here, and it concerns me that nobody is willing to admit the truth about it and the problems we have to deal with for fear of not having any real solutions to them.

If multiculturalism were anything but a disaster, people would be like, "Yes, we have these problems, and here is how we can acknowledge the differences and deal with them constructively..". That doesn't happen. I suspect it does not happen because nobody knows how to deal with it other than to ignore the problems and scream racist at anybody who dares to mention them.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

We established that ethnicity isn't static, and then you change the subject to blah blah Arabs.

I am beginning to suspect that your ethnic categories change to suite whatever argument you are trying to make.

[Speaker to Animals]

We established that ethnicity isn't static, and then you change the subject to blah blah Arabs.

I am beginning to suspect that your ethnic categories change to suite whatever argument you are trying to make.

It's a meaningless point, Hanarchy. Everything changes over time, even races. Is that why Iraq is such a lovely place in the springtime, because Sunni and Shia are all in flux and they are "All Iraqis"? Do the Hutu and Tutsi really just love each other if only they could accept that "everything is in flux" and they are all Rwandans?


Get real. This is a really bad idea you are defending here. You are ALWAYS playing with fire when you mix disparate nations of people. The more differences the more dangerous and the more explosive the outcome could become.

[de officiis]

Ethnic Germans and Italians were still European peoples with a common race, history, and even civilization.
You cannot compare that to non-western, non-European peoples migrating here who share literally nothing in common other than species.
They have as little in common with us as we did with the natives..

America is an idea, not an ethnicity.
The Era of EthnoStatism is quickly dwindling with the advent of Global interconnectivity.
Yet ideas can still unite people, ask the Jews.

So the trick is to get everyone coming into the nation to get onboard with Americanism. To get them to embrace America and its ideals. If they do that, it won't matter where they came from.

If they won't do that, then yeah, you have a bunch of competing identities fighting for control of the same piece of land and that's going to be a disaster.

Well, the problem is that the idea that "America is an idea" is slipping away.

[DBTrek]

I'm sure all the retired US soldiers of black/hispanic descent who spent their lives defending America have their own views on StA's idea that their ethnicity prevents them from being actual Americans, as do I.