Social Justice Warriors Thread

[DBTrek]

Ethnic Germans and Italians were still European peoples with a common race, history, and even civilization.
You cannot compare that to non-western, non-European peoples migrating here who share literally nothing in common other than species.
They have as little in common with us as we did with the natives..

America is an idea, not an ethnicity.
The Era of EthnoStatism is quickly dwindling with the advent of Global interconnectivity.
Yet ideas can still unite people, ask the Jews.

So the trick is to get everyone coming into the nation to get onboard with Americanism. To get them to embrace America and its ideals. If they do that, it won't matter where they came from.

If they won't do that, then yeah, you have a bunch of competing identities fighting for control of the same piece of land and that's going to be a disaster.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Crony Capitalism is bad for almost everyone. Would I stand side by side with a Critical Race Theory guy to speak against Crony Capitalism, Yes. Even though I don't subscribe to their Bullshit.

A near perfect description of the shared American ideal of pluralism.

We got at least three unifying principles and it hasn't been but half an hour. We should be able to sort America by supper.

[C-Mag]

Ethnic Germans and Italians were still European peoples with a common race, history, and even civilization.
You cannot compare that to non-western, non-European peoples migrating here who share literally nothing in common other than species.
They have as little in common with us as we did with the natives..

America is an idea, not an ethnicity.
The Era of EthnoStatism is quickly dwindling with the advent of Global interconnectivity.
Yet ideas can still unite people, ask the Jews.

So the trick is to get everyone coming into the nation to get onboard with Americanism. To get them to embrace America and its ideals. If they do that, it won't matter where they came from.

If they won't do that, then yeah, you have a bunch of competing identities fighting for control of the same piece of land and that's going to be a disaster.

+1
Well said

We have to set the standards for that. IMO includes stopping this sloppy immigration and going back to immigration with standards. Have to pass the test. While that is still in place, it's ignored when the bulk of the immigrants are illegal. Which means you have to lock down on immigration. Which means you probably need a wall, you need to control illegal voting, and you need to control hiring of illegals as well. Gotta bring it all into the light. Far too much working in the shadows from all sides of the political spectrum.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Nah. None of that is new. People have been complaining about how uneducated and ignorant the plebs were since day one, and we lasted way past day two.

I mean shit. We all talk here, and for all the disagreement, sometimes nasty language, and zero moderation, we can come back the next day and be civil, even jocular. And we got some filthy foreigners too. What values do we all share that makes that possible? Our disagreements aren't less vigorous than the disagreements in America at large. And it may hurt our egos, but I doubt we represent a uniquely educated, intellectually special, group of serene interlocutors.

Just imagine how things would work if we had rulers around here. We wouldn't be having this conversation (this thread) for sure if that were the case. One faction would have co-opted the ruler, and all of the others would have already been long ago deep-sixed.

This board is a space not without rules, but without rulers. And for that I thank you, Martin.

Just imagine our animating contest of freedom writ large somewhere IRL. It would be pretty damn fun, and scary also, I suppose. But free.

Martin, please ban this dangerous anarchist.

[C-Mag]

Crony Capitalism is bad for almost everyone. Would I stand side by side with a Critical Race Theory guy to speak against Crony Capitalism, Yes. Even though I don't subscribe to their Bullshit.

A near perfect description of the shared American ideal of pluralism.

We got at least three unifying principles and it hasn't been but half an hour. We should be able to sort America by supper.

[Speaker to Animals]

Fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_mistake


Ethnic Germans and Italians were still European peoples with a common race, history, and even civilization.

You cannot compare that to non-western, non-European peoples migrating here who share literally nothing in common other than species.

They have as little in common with us as we did with the natives..

Fallacy my balls. You were the one that used them as an example of why ethnically or culturally diverse people couldn't be part of the same civilization.

You can walk back that little bit of inanity any time.

These are two completely different categories you try to conflate while ignoring/dismissing the differences when those differences totally make a distinction with respect to your argument.

Italian and German immigrants were able to integrate and become Americans because they shared the same race, religion, and both came from the same civilization. That's not the same thing at all.

In fact, I don't see you making the same distinction amongst the Mexicans. "Mexican" means about the same thing to the Mesoamericans as "American" once meant to European peoples who migrated to North America. Mexicans consist of the remnants of northern peoples like the Mexica, Tarascans, Tlaxcalan, Zapotec, etc. There certainly exists a degree of integration between them, with populations of completely indigenous peoples from those groups, and then a lot of people who are mixed together (Mestizos) in the same way that we are all mixed together (e.g. Italian-Irish). Then they have several groups of Mayans spanning from Tabasco to the Guatemalan border. But you don't go and say, yeah, Americans and Mexicans go together just like Aztecs and Zapotec. We are a totally separate and distinct group of human beings. We don't actually share that much in common.

I could use any of dozens of other examples from other regions in the world. That kind of category of people is not the same thing as taking completely unrelated humans and tossing them together in some box you call a multicultural city. To argue that one thing translates to the other is totally fallacious.

[Speaker to Animals]

Ethnic Germans and Italians were still European peoples with a common race, history, and even civilization.
You cannot compare that to non-western, non-European peoples migrating here who share literally nothing in common other than species.
They have as little in common with us as we did with the natives..

America is an idea, not an ethnicity.
The Era of EthnoStatism is quickly dwindling with the advent of Global interconnectivity.
Yet ideas can still unite people, ask the Jews.

So the trick is to get everyone coming into the nation to get onboard with Americanism. To get them to embrace America and its ideals. If they do that, it won't matter where they came from.

If they won't do that, then yeah, you have a bunch of competing identities fighting for control of the same piece of land and that's going to be a disaster.

How is that idea working out now?

I'd argue it failed. It failed when we expanded the "idea" to mean all human beings, even when they share fuck all in common, and now we have identity politics as a permanent feature of our society and can only look forward to more racial and ethnic strife.

Your idea foments sectarian conflict. Seriously, when did manufacturing sectarian conflict like this ever become a great "idea"? How about, no, it's a fucking stupid and dangerous idea?

[C-Mag]

Back at DCF Waleis and I went through all this during the days of OWS and the Tea Party, Half the priority lists of OWS and the Tea Party had the same goals; with slightly different takes. What's different now for me is the understanding that we need to tear down the Establishment, the Swamp. What we are lacking is a leader on the Left to join in that fight. The GOP is being re-made right now. The Paleo Tea Party that Dan Carlin liked is going to win. Need that to happen with Dems.

Who is that Dem leader ? It's not Bernie, it's not Fauxcahontas. That leader is out there, we just need to figure out who it is and identify them.. Dems need to talk with Jim Webb, he is the only guy I can think of in the Democrat Party right now that can beat Trump.

[C-Mag]

How is that idea working out now?

I'd argue it failed. It failed when we expanded the "idea" to mean all human beings, even when they share fuck all in common, and now we have identity politics as a permanent feature of our society and can only look forward to more racial and ethnic strife.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_mistake


Ethnic Germans and Italians were still European peoples with a common race, history, and even civilization.

You cannot compare that to non-western, non-European peoples migrating here who share literally nothing in common other than species.

They have as little in common with us as we did with the natives..

Fallacy my balls. You were the one that used them as an example of why ethnically or culturally diverse people couldn't be part of the same civilization.

You can walk back that little bit of inanity any time.

These are two completely different categories you try to conflate while ignoring/dismissing the differences when those differences totally make a distinction with respect to your argument.

Italian and German immigrants were able to integrate and become Americans because they shared the same race, religion, and both came from the same civilization. That's not the same thing at all.

In fact, I don't see you making the same distinction amongst the Mexicans. "Mexican" means about the same thing to the Mesoamericans as "American" once meant to European peoples who migrated to North America. Mexicans consist of the remnants of northern peoples like the Mexica, Tarascans, Tlaxcalan, Zapotec, etc. There certainly exists a degree of integration between them, with populations of completely indigenous peoples from those groups, and then a lot of people who are mixed together (Mestizos) in the same way that we are all mixed together (e.g. Italian-Irish). Then they have several groups of Mayans spanning from Tabasco to the Guatemalan border. But you don't go and say, yeah, Americans and Mexicans go together just like Aztecs and Zapotec. We are a totally separate and distinct group of human beings. We don't actually share that much in common.

I could use any of dozens of other examples from other regions in the world. That kind of category of people is not the same thing as taking completely unrelated humans and tossing them together in some box you call a multicultural city. To argue that one thing translates to the other is totally fallacious.

Were the Germans a distinct group of human beings when they couldn't participate in Rome? Were they not the same ethnicity then because 'Europe' wasn't a thing yet?

Pretty sure Europeans were still kicking the shit out of each other and chalking it up to their distinct cultures and races while still integrating in America. Pretty sure they were having religious wars, speaking different languages, having different values and being pretty distinct until very recently.

Me and my German kin have been mixing with Mesoamericans for quiet sometime, but we haven't been with any filthy Italians in many generations. Guess I can't be part of the same country as them Jersey boys.

The category error is yours, not mine.