Public School Education System Thread

[SuburbanFarmer]

These are public schools provided by the government. Teaching creationism within is a violation of church and state

You moved the goal posts. Your original point was we need the DoE or else the whole country would be forced to drop science in favor of creationism.

Get rid of the DoE and let the local governments do what's best at the local level. Sure, you will have small pockets of the country teaching bat shit crazy stuff from ever direction... and?

...and then we have to pretend there's fucking "controversy" around every new scientific discovery, because people can't comprehend the scientific method. We continue on with a 2-class system of informed vs. moron. Progress and human advancement are restrained.

[StCapps]

...and then we have to pretend there's fucking "controversy" around every new scientific discovery, because people can't comprehend the scientific method. We continue on with a 2-class system of informed vs. moron. Progress and human advancement are restrained.

Yeah and all morons end up in public schools, and the progress and human achievement goes down in religious and private schools. You think the opposite will happen because you hate on religious people and assume they are dumber on average than atheists. Those religious schools that teach Creationism will not hold back their students the way you think it will and the rest of their education will very often be vastly superior to the public schools that forego teaching creationism. Simply not teaching creationism is not enough to give public schools the leg up on their religious alternatives, the way you seem to think that it does.

[K@th]

...and then we have to pretend there's fucking "controversy" around every new scientific discovery, because people can't comprehend the scientific method. We continue on with a 2-class system of informed vs. moron. Progress and human advancement are restrained.

Nobody has to pretend anything. You have a few counties in Bumfuck, OK who teach nothing but creationism is science... and..., what? What happens next? Does the world collapse or does the country have a giant laugh at the idiots in OK? Oh, wait, we already do that.

Making much too much of it is what gets the attention. Don't worry, a vast majority of universities will not be hiring creationists to head up their science department anytime soon.

As soon as these pockets of silliness realize their kids can't pass the SAT without some actual science, they'll adapt accordingly.

[StCapps]

As soon as these pockets of silliness realize their kids can't pass the SAT without some actual science, they'll adapt accordingly.

If that even happened. Being taught creationism does not prevent one from learning real science. I'm guessing these pockets of silliness will be quite small and short lived indeed given that reality. The people who think that creationism being taught in more schools automatically leads to people knowing less science are just anti-religious bullshitters.

[Dand]

I think a creationist would do just fine on the SAT, which doesn't have any questions about science at all, much less "how old is the earth". The ACT has a "science" section but it is virtually the "can you read a graph?" section and creationists could ace it if they can read graphs.

We've got to break up the schools and let them be less regulated so that we don't have a bureaucracy that will inevitably be corrupt and do bullshit like creating textbook monopolies that abuse students and dumbing down tests and teaching in order to artificially increase test scores.

GCF, the horrible schools would fail and get a reputation as bad schools. Letting people choose their own schools is a much better solution than putting trust in the federal government to act in everyone's best interest.

[StCapps]

I think a creationist would do just fine on the SAT, which doesn't have any questions about science at all, much less "how old is the earth". The ACT has a "science" section but it is virtually the "can you read a graph?" section and creationists could ace it if they can read graphs.

Exactly it's not like being taught creationism prevents them from being taught good science as well. Being taught creationism is not the giant mental roadblock that religion haters view it to be.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I think a creationist would do just fine on the SAT, which doesn't have any questions about science at all, much less "how old is the earth". The ACT has a "science" section but it is virtually the "can you read a graph?" section and creationists could ace it if they can read graphs.

Exactly it's not like being taught creationism prevents them from being taught good science as well. Being taught creationism is not the giant mental roadblock that religion haters view it to be.

How could it not be? You either accept one truth or the other - they are not compatible. You accept that geology has vastly older dates than 6,000 years, or a line of tribesmen's ages add up the Beginning of Everything.

You accept that living things change over time, or you believe that they were spawned from dirt on the whim of a flying god man.

You accept that a dinosaur was real, or you pretend that your great-grandpa killed a T-rex with a spear, and then they all disappeared.

There is no way to have both, unless you half-ass believe your chosen religious text (and we all know that we're talking about Christians here), and just cover your ass against hellfire. Which is great, but why would you inflict that kind of cognitive dissonance on your kids? Or other peoples' kids??

Also, I feel like this still doesn't get recognized as a KEY fucking part of this:

we only seem to be discussing CHRISTIAN religious views here. Why aren't we 'teaching the pretend controversy' with Native American, Hindu, Daoist and other creation myths???

[Okeefenokee]

Ok then. Convince me that millions of Texan/Oklahoman children don't grow up without basic scientific awareness because it's politically fashionable.

How about none of your fucking business dickhead? Is that convincing? You stay out of my child's life and we can you keep you away from that lampost. Worry about your own fucking kid, make him a man, instead of trying to turn every other one into a cowardly bitch.

Should we say none of your fucking business dickhead if you're beating your kids too?

There comes a point when the community has to step in for abuse. Teaching psuedoscience and lies because it suits people's iron age beliefs is abuse

No it is not.

[StCapps]

There is no way to have both, unless you half-ass believe your chosen religious text (and we all know that we're talking about Christians here), and just cover your ass against hellfire. Which is great, but why would you inflict that kind of cognitive dissonance on your kids? Or other peoples' kids??

There is plenty of ways to have both. Not all creationists believe the world is 6,000 years old, they all believe that god created everything that exists, will exist or existed in the past. One can believe the latter without believing the former. See how that works? Perfectly compatible with actual science, you just want to demonize all creationists by lumping them in with the most extreme creationists who deny any science that conflicts with the strictest possible interpretation of the bible.

Why would I subject people's kids to creationism? Because they freely choose to subject their kids to creationism and why the fuck should I stop them just because I don't share their beliefs? The problem is nowhre near dire enough to force parents to do as I would do with government intervention, that will just make shit worse.

Also, I feel like this still doesn't get recognized as a KEY fucking part of this:

we only seem to be discussing CHRISTIAN religious views here. Why aren't we 'teaching the pretend controversy' with Native American, Hindu, Daoist and other creation myths???

This is not a key part of anything we are talking about. You are going off on a side tangent that I don't see the point in discussing at the moment.

[K@th]

You either accept one truth or the other - they are not compatible. ]

Nah - the peeps who believe in a 6,000 year old earth are very small. The rest just add a layer.... evolution happened, blah blah blah.... and god got the ball rolling.

Very compatible. One is the cause, the other is the action.