Earth matters

[Montegriffo]

Ok, that explains the situation better than the link you posted. Does anyone have any idea of the real numbers of wolves in the two countries?

[Otern]

Ok, that explains the situation better than the link you posted. Does anyone have any idea of the real numbers of wolves in the two countries?

Noone really knows. But there are registered 90-100, according to this; http://rovdata.no/Ulv/Bestandsstatus.aspx
(far more reliable than WWF). Also, a wolf in the borderlands will be counted as half a wolf, which skews the statistics.

Note, registered. This is the absolute minimum, and most wolves are really hard to find. Also, this was last year. Wolves generally increase by around 30% in numbers each year.

Just the fact that I ran into a wolf in the woods many years ago in the far western Norway, and have spotted tracks before that, indicates the numbers are way off. Officially there are no wolves at all in Western Norway, even though lots of people say they have spotted them. And the ridicule from the east, makes very few people actually report it to the authorities, I for sure didn't.

But it's not really about the wolves, more about the way the urbanites are putting the financial burden of having wolves on the ruralites who have to take the consequences of this new policy.

edit; these numbers were the Norwegian ones, no idea on Sweden, but they have far more than we do. Registered around 300. But again, probably a lot more.

[Kazmyr]

But it's not really about the wolves, more about the way the urbanites are putting the financial burden of having wolves on the ruralites who have to take the consequences of this new policy.

Seems to happen quite a bit. It's easy for people to push for supremely onerous policies when they get to watch it from afar.

[Montegriffo]

Well I have no objection to culling species which threaten the balance of nature and reduce numbers of other non pest animals. Seems like more honest research into the numbers and the effects they are having is needed. Maybe funded by those keenest to sign petitions without knowing the full facts.

[Otern]

Well I have no objection to culling species which threaten the balance of nature and reduce numbers of other non pest animals. Seems like more honest research into the numbers and the effects they are having is needed. Maybe funded by those keenest to sign petitions without knowing the full facts.

There's the whole misconception of "the balance of nature" too. Urbanites usually think the cabin they have in the woods is "wild nature". But it's really not, it's all cultural landscape, managed by people, livestock, and human interference. There's practically no wild nature in Norway, just a couple of areas where people never wander anyway.

Nature doesn't start where the cities/farms stop. It's all a lot more complicated. But for some people, nature starts where it looks like nature to them, even when it's all regulated and managed.

[Montegriffo]

I watched a fantastic program about Sami reindeer herders this week, looked like a pretty wild landscape which they inhabited. Their herds were taken by ferry to an island over winter to keep them safe from predators whilst they reared their young then swum back across the water in spring time.

[Otern]

I watched a fantastic program about Sami reindeer herders this week, looked like a pretty wild landscape which they inhabited. Their herds were taken by ferry to an island over winter to keep them safe from predators whilst they reared their young then swum back across the water in spring time.

It looks great, but it's not wild. It's a cultural landscape, as domesticated reindeer graze there.

[Montegriffo]

I watched a fantastic program about Sami reindeer herders this week, looked like a pretty wild landscape which they inhabited. Their herds were taken by ferry to an island over winter to keep them safe from predators whilst they reared their young then swum back across the water in spring time.

It looks great, but it's not wild. It's a cultural landscape, as domesticated reindeer graze there.

The reindeer were allowed to migrate and were only semi domesticated so it seems like a form of herding designed to have minimum impact on nature. I was slightly disappointed to see snow mobiles being used but expecting the Sami to remain in the past is pretty dumb and they did seem to have a lot of respect for the environment.

[Otern]

I watched a fantastic program about Sami reindeer herders this week, looked like a pretty wild landscape which they inhabited. Their herds were taken by ferry to an island over winter to keep them safe from predators whilst they reared their young then swum back across the water in spring time.

It looks great, but it's not wild. It's a cultural landscape, as domesticated reindeer graze there.

The reindeer were allowed to migrate and were only semi domesticated so it seems like a form of herding designed to have minimum impact on nature. I was slightly disappointed to see snow mobiles being used but expecting the Sami to remain in the past is pretty dumb and they did seem to have a lot of respect for the environment.

Snow mobiles have less of an impact than the reindeer. It would look totally different if the reindeer didn't graze there. Not "better" or "prettier", just different.

[Otern]

Ready for more migrants/refugees? Because this is how there will be more migrants/refugees. And there's no "bad hombres" to put the blame on, just the good old natural disaster:
http://www.agrimoney.com/news/un-to-hol ... 10409.html

Also, bumping the thread, since it's got potential.