The Right and the Left need each other - debate

[Cid]

Yes but MSM gives the left side of the shit outlets a megaphone. You knew about Hogan and gawker, but point on the doll where the Brietbart touched you. You can't, you just know they bad cause mommy MSM said so. Cultural marxism putting in work.

I know about Hogan and gawker from Ars Technica son, MSM is the Fox News of the left. And I can't find fault with a lot of articles on Motherjones either, that doesn't mean they aren't peddling their little SJW agenda.

I don't need to touch the bullshit to smell it.

[Smitty-48]

For instance, is studying the history of the civil war from the perspective of the Confederates 'cultural Marxism?' By all the definitions provided in this thread, it certainly seems to be. They were not the victors, they believe their rights were subsequently violated, et cetera.

This is very well put.

The Confederates are the prime example of an outgroup that held on to it's claim to history.
The left allowed this outgroup to keep it's "dignity" and the confederates have resented them for this "gift" ever since.
This is a perfect example of the hostile dependence paradigm...
The left wanted the confederates to be grateful to them and like them for their mercy....
That was their arrogance.

The right know the folly of this.
They do not want to repeat the mistakes of the left.
They believe in crushing outgroups to spare them the misery that the confederates have lived in as recipients of "mercy" from the left.

Did I get this right Smitty?
For Smitty we are still living the Civil War.

No, the Yankees are not on the Left, the Yankees asserted the power of a de facto Crown over the Confederates, the Yankees took the role of the British Crown over the Revolutionaries, except unlike the British Crown, the Yankees were a sea power AND a land power, who could both blockade AND conduct a total war of annihilation inland.

The Civil War was Right Wing on Right Wing violence, same as the Revolutionary War was, two aristocracies at war with each other, Planting Aristocracy v. Banking Aristocracy, but the Yankees were as apt to crush the Left as the Rebs were, and in fact did so, from hanging John Brown to lynching Jim Crow.

The Yankees were and are imperialists and slave holders, it's just an Empire of Liberty which holds its indentured slaves in the ghettos and offshore.

Uncle Billy would crush the Left with his tanks in the streets, just as assuredly as Old Blue Light would.

The Left-RIght paradigm of the French Revolution, simply does not apply to the American revolutions, which is why it never gets any traction in America, you're trying to jam a European square peg into an American round hole.

The American Civil War was a war of imperial conquest, between two empires, to determine which one would rule, in the European context, it's not the Commune v. Bourbon, it's more like Hanover v. Bourbon.

[clubgop]

You're better than that.

You take that fucking back, now! Cause I'm not. You can't expect to have Karl Marx the most proscribed text in college courses around the world and expect some of the dumb stupid hicks you hate not pick up a few things along the way.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

You're better than that.

You take that fucking back, now! Cause I'm not. You can't expect to have Karl Marx the most proscribed text in college courses around the world and expect some of the dumb stupid hicks you hate not pick up a few things along the way.

:worhsip:

[DrYouth]

No, the Yankees are not on the Left, the Yankees asserted the power of a de facto Crown over the Confederates, the Yankees took the role of the British Crown over the Revolutionaries, except unlike the British Crown, the Yankees were a sea power AND a land power, who could both blockade AND conduct a total war of annihilation inland.

The Civil War was Right Wing on Right Wing violence, same as the Revolutionary War was, two aristocracies at war with each other, Planting Aristocracy v. Banking Aristocracy, but the Yankees were as apt to crush the Left as the Rebs were, and in fact did so, from hanging John Brown to lynching Jim Crow.

The Yankees were and are imperialists and slave holders, it's just an Empire of Liberty which holds its indentured slaves in the ghettos and offshore.

Uncle Billy would crush the Left with his tanks in the streets, just as assuredly as Old Blue Light would.

The Left-RIght paradigm of the French Revolution, simply does not apply to the American revolutions, which is why it never gets any traction in America, you're trying to jam a European square peg into an American round hole.

The American Civil War was a war of imperial conquest, between two empires, to determine which one would rule, in the European context, it's not the Commune v. Bourbon, it's more like Hanover v. Bourbon.

I see this angle.
That being said the Yankee states have shifted left while the Confederate States have stayed right.
The Civil War North flirted with the left, when it suited them, and never entirely dumped, while the Confederate states had no left to speak of.
The Civil War legitimized a left, pro worker, anti-landed aristocracy wing to the debate...
The Civil War narrative is central to the left's dogma at any rate.
While the Confederate narrative is a centre piece of certain resistance movements against it.

[Fife]

I see this angle.

That's about the size of it. To Marxists, history is just another "angle" in search of a narrative. Any search for truth gets kicked to the gutter.

"Left/Right" is the mother of angles.

[clubgop]

I see this angle.

That's about the size of it. To Marxists, history is just another "angle" in search of a narrative. Any search for truth gets kicked to the gutter.

"Left/Right" is the mother of angles.

It's like writing a wrestling show. Face/Heel, Face/Heel, Face/Heel rinse and repeat.

[DrYouth]

To Marxists, history is just another "angle" in search of a narrative. Any search for truth gets kicked to the gutter.

I'm all about searching for truth.

I'm not a relativist.

That being said looking at things from multiple angles is more likely to glean truths than looking at things from just one...

None of those angles is the truth.

But there is a truth.

[Smitty-48]

I see this angle.
That being said the Yankee states have shifted left while the Confederate States have stayed right.
The Civil War North flirted with the left, when it suited them, and never entirely dumped, while the Confederate states had no left to speak of.
The Civil War legitimized a left, pro worker, anti-landed aristocracy wing to the debate...
The Civil War narrative is central to the left's dogma at any rate.
While the Confederate narrative is a centre piece of certain resistance movements against it.

Nope, that's not it neither, the Yankees are not on the Left, and the dogma is not pro-worker anti-aristocracy, it's merely good ol' fashioned American triumphalism. Again, you're trying to impose your Cultural Marxist Eurodogma on an American paradigm, but it just doesn't fit.

The Yankees are a Banking Aristocracy, hardly pro-worker, looking down upon everyone from a very great height, on Wall Street. The nexus of Yankee power, in on Manhattan Island, and nobody in the history of the world, has strung more leftists to the lampposts, than the Yankees.

And before you invoke Hitler and Stalin on the Eastern Front, just remember, first the Yankees backed Hitler, then they backed Stalin. Who do you think paid for the Eastern Front? That's right, was the Yankees. Them Yankees have always pitted the collectivist workers against one another, divide and conquer for the win.

[DrYouth]

Nope, that's not it neither, the Yankees are not on the Left, and the dogma is not pro-worker anti-aristocracy, it's merely good ol' fashioned American triumphalism. Again, you're trying to impose your Cultural Marxist Eurodogma on an American paradigm, but it just doesn't fit.

The Yankees are a Banking Aristocracy, hardly pro-worker, looking down upon everyone from a very great height, on Wall Street. The nexus of Yankee power, in on Manhattan Island, and nobody in the history of the world, has strung more leftists to the lampposts, than the Yankees.

And before you invoke Hitler and Stalin on the Eastern Front, just remember, first the Yankees backed Hitler, then they backed Stalin. Who do you think paid for the Eastern Front? That's right, was the Yankees. Them Yankees have always pitted the collectivist workers against one another, divide and conquer for the win.

Hmmm...

Cultural Marxist Eurodogma?

I would say I'm summarizing a pretty standard reading of the American Civil War.
The North was anti-slavery because slavery was bad for the Northern capitalist system...
Both the independent landholder side of the equation... because the slaveholders owned massive plantations and independent landholders couldn't compete and industry that paid wages that didn't want to compete with slaveholders.
Two competing economic systems that didn't tolerate one another went to war.
The North had a (relatively small) left whose values were abolitionist and prolabour and a right who didn't give a fig about either certainly. The North cautiously courted abolitionist sentiment but often didn't trust it.

As for Smitty's American Triumphalism dogma... sounds like some DIY political philosophy you cooked up in that crazy noggin' of yours.