Unite the Right

[Ex-California]

In July of 1863, in the midst of the Civil War, Americans were fighting on battlefields across the country—Vicksburg, Gettysburg, and New York City. The latter battle, which became known as the New York Draft Riots, was not a fight between Union and Confederate troops, however. The three-day riot was the destructive resistance of the city’s immigrant poor against a Congressional mandate that made all men aged twenty to forty-five eligible for the draft—and had a provision that let the rich buy their way out. The fighting left over one hundred people dead and buildings, homes, and orphanages destroyed. In particular, the mob of lower-class workers and immigrant gangs attacked African Americans and the city’s rich before the draft was postponed and militias quelled the violence.

https://dp.la/primary-source-sets/sets/ ... civil-war/

Now that you have been proven wrong you are trying turn this into that I was wrong.

I really think that source is dishonest. To think that for one second that there wasn't a racial component is simply ignorant

[katarn]

I can understand your sentiments, but to me, fighting fire with fire doesn't douse anything. It's trite, but I believe in avoiding stooping to their level, being (morally at least) better than them.

As morality is largely subjective in the grand scheme of things, the more important distinction is that they are a mob, and it is in your fundamental interests as an individual, to defend your autonomy from mobs of any sort, regardless of their claims of moral superiority, or any other kind of superiority for that matter.

Whether ostensibly good or evil in a morality play, mob rule is an evil unto itself.

[Penner]

In July of 1863, in the midst of the Civil War, Americans were fighting on battlefields across the country—Vicksburg, Gettysburg, and New York City. The latter battle, which became known as the New York Draft Riots, was not a fight between Union and Confederate troops, however. The three-day riot was the destructive resistance of the city’s immigrant poor against a Congressional mandate that made all men aged twenty to forty-five eligible for the draft—and had a provision that let the rich buy their way out. The fighting left over one hundred people dead and buildings, homes, and orphanages destroyed. In particular, the mob of lower-class workers and immigrant gangs attacked African Americans and the city’s rich before the draft was postponed and militias quelled the violence.

https://dp.la/primary-source-sets/sets/ ... civil-war/

Now that you have been proven wrong you are trying turn this into that I was wrong.

I really think that source is dishonest. To think that for one second that there wasn't a racial component is simply ignorant

Well, the people who rioted were the ones who were being drafted into the Union army and there did exist a loophole BUT it was something design that only the rich can afford to do and since blacks weren't considered full citizens they were excluded from the draft (although, they did join the Union army in very large numbers). Plus, we are talking about something that is commonly called, "Draft Riots" and not "Workers' Riots" or whatever. They did murder/lynch a bunch of blacks who were living in NYC at the time as well but the main cause of that riot was because of the draft and how totally fucked up the ass they were in resisting being drafted.

[Speaker to Animals]

They actually did *not* join in large numbers. There were a few regiments (famous), but it wasn't that many. There were more blacks than Irish, and every state on both sides had Irish brigades.

And, really, why should they have fought? For what? The federal government didn't want to free them and only did so when it became strategically advantageous. Hell, Uncle Billy left a ton of them to die after he marched through.

[Speaker to Animals]

Explain this, princess:

With respect to slaves, the act authorized court proceedings to strip their owners of any claim to them but did not clarify whether the slaves were free.[2] As a result of this ambiguity, these slaves came under Union lines as property in the care of the U.S. government. In response to this situation, General David Hunter, the Union Army military commander of Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida, issued General Order No. 11 on May 9, 1862 freeing all slaves in areas under his command. Upon hearing of Hunter's action one week later, Lincoln immediately countermanded the order, thus returning the slaves to their former status as property in the care of the federal government.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confiscation_Act_of_1861

The federal government confiscated slaves as property and loot. They didn't give a shit about those people.

[Smitty-48]

Well, the people who rioted were the ones who were being drafted into the Union army and there did exist a loophole BUT it was something design that only the rich can afford to do and since blacks weren't considered full citizens they were excluded from the draft...

There was no citizenship clause at the time, rights flowed from male inheritence and land ownership, black people were not legal persons, it wasn't that they weren't full citizens, de jure, they weren't even fully humans, not just in Dixie, in the Union as well.

[Okeefenokee]

I could swear that he was arguing that Lincoln's Empamaction Proclamation caused riots in New York. I said that the only riots that I know of were the Draft Riots, then he started posting something about Longshoremen like this supported his cause. Then I said again, Draft Riots, and then he brought up Gangs of New York. In my opinion, it seems that Okee was wrong originally and is trying to deflect the blame here.

You're too stupid to help.

The summer of '63 riots,

remain the largest civil and racial insurrection in American history, aside from the Civil War itself.

Two months after emancipation, 200 black longshoreman attacked.

Four months later, the largest race riot in US history.

Remember this?

Just take a minute to appreciate this.

The Civil War was about state's rights.

Yeah, the right to own slaves.

The riots were about the draft.

Yeah, being drafted into a war to free slaves.

The riots were race riots as much as they were draft riots. They were killing black people because they didn't want to be drafted to die in a war to free black people who would then take their jobs, which is exactly what happened, as Smitty and I have already shown. Penner is just too fucking completely indoctrinated into her dogma to see anything other than an army of union angels.

All I have been saying is that the Draft Riots were about the US drafts that were affecting the poor, lower-class, and immigrants.

In July of 1863, in the midst of the Civil War, Americans were fighting on battlefields across the country—Vicksburg, Gettysburg, and New York City. The latter battle, which became known as the New York Draft Riots, was not a fight between Union and Confederate troops, however. The three-day riot was the destructive resistance of the city’s immigrant poor against a Congressional mandate that made all men aged twenty to forty-five eligible for the draft—and had a provision that let the rich buy their way out. The fighting left over one hundred people dead and buildings, homes, and orphanages destroyed. In particular, the mob of lower-class workers and immigrant gangs attacked African Americans and the city’s rich before the draft was postponed and militias quelled the violence.

https://dp.la/primary-source-sets/sets/ ... civil-war/

Now that you have been proven wrong you are trying turn this into that I was wrong.

Where was I proven wrong, fakenews?

Show me where.

Six months after emancipation, the Union enacts a draft that only targets poor whites (didn't apply to free blacks) and they rioted.

Are you too dense to understand why a draft was needed at that time? Why didn't the war start with a draft?

Lincoln mobilized a 75 thousand man strong volunteer force in 1861 to augment state militias pouring in from every Union state. That army got its ass kicked for two years until the tide was turned at Gettysburg.

Think about that. There was never a need for a draft at any point during two years of losing the war to preserve the Union, but after Gettysburg, Lincoln repurposes the war to preserve the Union as a war to free the slaves, and six months later there are riots in the north, where northern whites are hunting down free blacks by the hundreds, because enlistments are down so low, when the war is being won, that Lincoln has to enact conscription.

[Okeefenokee]

I really thought the fact that civil rights for black Americans taking a full century to come about after the civil war would dampen a lot of this fairy tale bullshit about the north being a 21st century land of racial integration in 1865.

[Smitty-48]

Think about that. There was never a need for a draft at any point during two years of losing the war to preserve the Union,

Not only that, initially, it wasn't even a war for all intents and purposes, more a police action which incited a series of relative skirmishes, it wasn't even until Shiloh Church, with its 24,000 odd casualties and no system in place to evacuate nor care for them, the first battle of anihilition in effect, that it escalated from de facto police action to all out war.

At first, people weren't even taking it that seriously, it was just assumed that the Union would put a whuppin' on these upstarts with relative ease and that would be that, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, nobody was thinking this would ever get to Shiloh never mind Antietam Creek.

[Alexander PhiAlipson]

They actually did *not* join in large numbers. There were a few regiments (famous), but it wasn't that many. There were more blacks than Irish, and every state on both sides had Irish brigades.

And, really, why should they have fought? For what? The federal government didn't want to free them and only did so when it became strategically advantageous. Hell, Uncle Billy left a ton of them to die after he marched through.

Don't forget that other Jefferson Davis, and the incident at Ebenezer Creek. Wikipedia downplays it a bit--by a bit I mean by thousands--and Sherman supported the action.