Unite the Right

Okeefenokee
Posts: 12950
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:27 pm
Location: The Great Place

Re: Unite the Right

Post by Okeefenokee » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:36 pm

Penner wrote:
Okeefenokee wrote:
Penner wrote:Gangs of New York depicted the Draft Riots:

The new york draft riots depicted in the film, where blacks were hunted down and killed in the streets, happened in 1863, after emancipation.

Learn

to

read.
Actually, you were the one trying to say that this was some riot by longshore men and that this wasn't the Draft Riots.
Learn

to

read.
Okeefenokee wrote:There were riots in the north after the war's purpose was restated to be emancipation.

The New York draft riots (July 13–16, 1863), known at the time as Draft Week,[3] were violent disturbances in Lower Manhattan, widely regarded as the culmination of working-class discontent with new laws passed by Congress that year to draft men to fight in the ongoing American Civil War. The riots remain the largest civil and racial insurrection in American history, aside from the Civil War itself.[4]

U.S. President Abraham Lincoln diverted several regiments of militia and volunteer troops from following up after the Battle of Gettysburg to control the city. The rioters were overwhelmingly working-class men, mostly Irish or of Irish descent, who feared free blacks competing for work and resented that wealthier men, who could afford to pay a $300 (equivalent to $9,157 in 2017[5]) commutation fee to hire a substitute, were spared from the draft.[6][7]

Initially intended to express anger at the draft, the protests turned into a race riot, with white rioters, predominantly Irish immigrants,[4] attacking blacks throughout the city. The official death toll was listed at either 119 or 120 individuals. Conditions in the city were such that Major General John E. Wool, commander of the Department of the East, said on July 16 that "Martial law ought to be proclaimed, but I have not a sufficient force to enforce it."[8]

The military did not reach the city until after the first day of rioting, by which time the mobs, primarily ethnic Irish, had already ransacked or destroyed numerous public buildings, two Protestant churches, the homes of various abolitionists or sympathizers, many black homes, and the Colored Orphan Asylum at 44th Street and Fifth Avenue, which was burned to the ground.[9]

The area's demographics changed as a result of the riot. Many blacks left Manhattan permanently (many moving to Brooklyn). By 1865 their population fell below 10,000, the number in 1820.
The Emancipation Proclamation of January 1863 alarmed much of the working class in New York, who feared that freed slaves would migrate to the city and add further competition to the labor market. There had already been tensions between black and white workers since the 1850s, particularly at the docks. In March 1863, white longshoremen had refused to work with blacks and rioted, attacking 200 black men. In this area of the city, there were a variety of interracial venues of brothels and bars, and neighborhoods were mixed in terms of residents. Men competed as hacks (carriage drivers), craftsmen, and in other jobs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots[/quote]

Riots plural. Race riots. Hundreds of black workers being attacked by white workers. Hundreds of blacks being killed in the streets. Black homes being burned down. They even burned down a black orphanage. All of which occurred after the January 1863 emancipation.

GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

viewtopic.php?p=60751#p60751

Smitty-48
Posts: 36399
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Unite the Right

Post by Smitty-48 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:40 pm

katarn wrote:I can understand your sentiments, but to me, fighting fire with fire doesn't douse anything. It's trite, but I believe in avoiding stooping to their level, being (morally at least) better than them.
As morality is largely subjective in the grand scheme of things, the more important distinction is that they are a mob, and it is in your fundamental interests as an individual, to defend your autonomy from mobs of any sort, regardless of their claims of moral superiority, or any other kind of superiority for that matter.

Whether ostensibly good or evil in a morality play, mob rule is an evil unto itself.
Nec Aspera Terrent

User avatar
Ex-California
Posts: 4116
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:37 pm

Re: Unite the Right

Post by Ex-California » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:12 pm

Okeefenokee wrote:
Penner wrote:Gangs of New York depicted the Draft Riots:

The new york draft riots depicted in the film, where blacks were hunted down and killed in the streets, happened in 1863, after emancipation.

Learn

to

read.
What are you arguing about here? Gangs of New York depicts the Draft Riots. Are you saying it was the earlier riots from March?
No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session

User avatar
Ex-California
Posts: 4116
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:37 pm

Re: Unite the Right

Post by Ex-California » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:13 pm

I guess I jumped in here late, I'm not sure what you and Penner were on about before this
No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session

User avatar
SuburbanFarmer
Posts: 25287
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:50 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Unite the Right

Post by SuburbanFarmer » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:16 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:That's the tragedy of that fucking war. Slavery was abhorrent and had to be eradicated. The only way that was obviously going to happen was through violence. But in making slavery the straw that broke the camel's back, they basically ensured we would be enslaved under a federal leviathan for centuries.

We really need to discuss going back to a Confederation. This federal government idea has been a violent shit show from day one.
Agreed. However, in this age of nuclear weaponry, it is an impossibility.
SJWs are a natural consequence of corporatism.

Formerly GrumpyCatFace

https://youtu.be/CYbT8-rSqo0

User avatar
Ex-California
Posts: 4116
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:37 pm

Re: Unite the Right

Post by Ex-California » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:16 pm

Ahhh, I get it now
Okeefenokee wrote:There were riots in the north after the war's purpose was restated to be emancipation.
I absolutely agree with this and have mentioned this very fact many times when people start to get altruistic about the North's purpose in the Civil War. I was just confirming that the riots depicted at the end of Gangs of New York were the Draft Riots
No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session

User avatar
Speaker to Animals
Posts: 38685
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:59 pm

Re: Unite the Right

Post by Speaker to Animals » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:18 pm

GrumpyCatFace wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:That's the tragedy of that fucking war. Slavery was abhorrent and had to be eradicated. The only way that was obviously going to happen was through violence. But in making slavery the straw that broke the camel's back, they basically ensured we would be enslaved under a federal leviathan for centuries.

We really need to discuss going back to a Confederation. This federal government idea has been a violent shit show from day one.
Agreed. However, in this age of nuclear weaponry, it is an impossibility.

I think people are ripe for it. Just tell the millennials it's basically the Battlestar Galactica 2.0 government.

Penner
Posts: 3350
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:00 pm

Re: Unite the Right

Post by Penner » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:18 pm

California wrote:I guess I jumped in here late, I'm not sure what you and Penner were on about before this
I could swear that he was arguing that Lincoln's Empamaction Proclamation caused riots in New York. I said that the only riots that I know of were the Draft Riots, then he started posting something about Longshoremen like this supported his cause. Then I said again, Draft Riots, and then he brought up Gangs of New York. In my opinion, it seems that Okee was wrong originally and is trying to deflect the blame here.
Image

User avatar
SuburbanFarmer
Posts: 25287
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:50 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Unite the Right

Post by SuburbanFarmer » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:19 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:
GrumpyCatFace wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:That's the tragedy of that fucking war. Slavery was abhorrent and had to be eradicated. The only way that was obviously going to happen was through violence. But in making slavery the straw that broke the camel's back, they basically ensured we would be enslaved under a federal leviathan for centuries.

We really need to discuss going back to a Confederation. This federal government idea has been a violent shit show from day one.
Agreed. However, in this age of nuclear weaponry, it is an impossibility.

I think people are ripe for it. Just tell the millennials it's basically the Battlestar Galactica 2.0 government.
Trust me. You do not want to live through the implications of the federal government disbanding.
SJWs are a natural consequence of corporatism.

Formerly GrumpyCatFace

https://youtu.be/CYbT8-rSqo0

Smitty-48
Posts: 36399
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Unite the Right

Post by Smitty-48 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:23 pm

GrumpyCatFace wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:That's the tragedy of that fucking war. Slavery was abhorrent and had to be eradicated. The only way that was obviously going to happen was through violence. But in making slavery the straw that broke the camel's back, they basically ensured we would be enslaved under a federal leviathan for centuries.

We really need to discuss going back to a Confederation. This federal government idea has been a violent shit show from day one.
Agreed. However, in this age of nuclear weaponry, it is an impossibility.
Actually, thermonuclear weapons make it exponentially more viable now, never before have such modest states had the means to defend themselves from vastly larger ones, it's not like the Arabs could in fact overrun the IDF after all, with the Israelis now in possession of a survivable nuclear deterent, the Isreali survivable nuclear deterent having brought the Arab-Isreali Wars to an end for all intents and purposes.

It was actually only because the Isrealis won all the Arab-Israeli Wars by conventional means that they were never forced to invoke their nuclear deterent, but now that they have, they don't have to worry about being invaded by Egypt & Co anymore.
Last edited by Smitty-48 on Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nec Aspera Terrent