Finland - No Homeless

[Montegriffo]

Hey, if you are going to deprive some of the most deserving of help on grounds of capability then I want to know who is going to make that decision.
Not you hopefully.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

If you want government assistance, prove you are incapable. Keep in mind, we refuse to offer any parameters that define capability.

If you don't want government assistance, and don't care about living inside, we will make it illegal for you to live outside in an 'unsanctioned encampment.' Furthermore, we will use your degenerate being-outside-all-the-time lifestyle as evidence that homeless people, as a general rule, are just lazy reprobates.

[DBTrek]

Like clockwork.

Ok, this monkey paddling session has to pause so I can get some work done. I’ll check back later to see if our assembled geniuses came up with something more compelling than another hysterical rendition of “OMG, OMG, the needy!!!” -or- “How can we know/who are we to judge?”

[doc_loliday]

I'd say judging someone's capability by flipping a coin is better than "just give everyone that asks, no strings attached". Virtually any plan is better than the envious spiteful schemes that are being bandied about.

[Montegriffo]

If you want government assistance, prove you are incapable. Keep in mind, we refuse to offer any parameters that define capability.

If you don't want government assistance, and don't care about living inside, we will make it illegal for you to live outside in an 'unsanctioned encampment.' Furthermore, we will use your degenerate being-outside-all-the-time lifestyle as evidence that homeless people, as a general rule, are just lazy reprobates.

But if you are capable of proving that you are incapable are you really incapable?
Do you have to be incapable of proving your incapability to prove you are incapable?
My head hurts..

[K@th]

But if you are capable of proving that you are incapable are you really incapable?
Do you have to be incapable of proving your incapability to prove you are incapable?
My head hurts..

Why is this a hard concept? We already have mechanisms in place for members of society to inform us that they've become incapacitated to work. Some of the definitions are real loose, too. Really, all you have to do is find a doctor who says your back hurts, and bam, you can get some bennies for yourself.

Someone who says, "Oh, I could join society and be productive, but I don't want to," has already proven capability. Lack of desire to be productive in society shouldn't qualify you for bennies from those who are productive.

[doc_loliday]

Indeed, disability is synonymous with welfare now, by correlation of data, not by any sort of judgement. Of course this means that there are at least some people who aren't collecting money that otherwise could.

[K@th]

I think it's screwy to assume that most people would opt out of participating in society if given a choice. Even if my every wish was granted and I need not ever work again, I would do something. It would more likely be an unpaid, volunteer position, but volunteers make a giant contribution to society.

What percentage of humans would literally choose to sit on the couch and eat Doritos all day if they had the choice?

[DBTrek]

Only 37% of Seattle’s homeless accept offers of free shelter. You tell me, what’s the opt-out ratio look like?

It’s cold and rainy here, btw. I’m case our resident geniuses are unfamiliar with Seattle’s climate.

[doc_loliday]

I think it's screwy to assume that most people would opt out of participating in society if given a choice. Even if my every wish was granted and I need not ever work again, I would do something. It would more likely be an unpaid, volunteer position, but volunteers make a giant contribution to society.

What percentage of humans would literally choose to sit on the couch and eat Doritos all day if they had the choice?

You're an engaging human being, that's why you think that way. I have met many people who would watch netflix and eat doritos all day, every day if given the choice. I'm sure if you reflected you would be able to name a few. I mean, not to be disrespectful, but the way you describe your kid isn't all that far off.

The problem is primarily drugs. It saps natural curiosity and motivation. Scoring becomes the primary objective. For young people, who still have energy, getting high and having fun is the goal, which eventually turns into getting high, and then simply getting well. Again, I think a fair compromise is offering shelters, halfway homes, and services for those that want them; not arresting and jailing them, but at the same time rejecting the negative consequences of their actions. We can't let addicts take over our towns. They are literally shitting and pissing all over the place; littering their needles and trash all over. Their plight sucks, but that doesn't mean they get to ruin everything for the rest of us. I can't fathom why this is acceptable. Why do we have to hand over our public spaces, cash and houses to these people, when they only accept help on their terms? It's just nuts.