The Right and the Left need each other - debate

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

This whole conversation about 'cultural Marxism' is ridiculous. It is a made up propaganda term.

For instance, is studying the history of the civil war from the perspective of the Confederates 'cultural Marxism?' By all the definitions provided in this thread, it certainly seems to be. They were not the victors, they believe their rights were subsequently violated, et cetera.

"Cultural marxism" is the fancy academic term for PC. So no history from the perspective of the Confederates would not be PC. Cultural marxism would specifically eliminate the perspective altogether.

I read in this thread that cultural Marxism meant looking at culture from an oppressor/oppressed paradigm. Or, viewing history through a lens other than the victors. Both of these could apply to the Confederacy.

If you want to say PC when describing PC nonsense, use that term. If you want to use a fancy academic term, don't throw it around at every single opportunity. This is EXACTLY what the left did with words like Fascism, and they shot themselves in the godamn foot with that one by crying wolf.

It is too easy to redefine any pejorative so it doesn't apply to one's own views, but then we should at least be honest about what we are saying. 'Cultural Marxist' is used precisely because it is a conveniently loaded term against the left, not because it has some deep academic meaning.

The only reason that viewing the civil war from the perspective of the Confederates isn't PC is because poor southerners aren't viewed as an oppressed class, but if one is being honest, they probably should be. Especially because the whole exercise of viewing history from a Marxist perspective means looking at it from the perspective of people without wealth.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Two things: point me to the right wing ideals that demand cultural authoritarianism. I wont deny that there are elements of the right that would like to have some sort of say, but I'm curious as to where this has ever been the case and wether or not you feel that defines the right.

Like I said, the left views the religious right as being cultural authoritarians. I don't personally think this defines conservative thinking, but having laws that entrench Abrahamic morality is cultural authoritarianism, which is why I support their dismantling. Just like I don't support requiring people to use made up words for gender based on arbitrary preference. Authoritarian impulses aren't exclusive to any particular group of idiots, but I don't think it is useful to make every discussion about them. Not every thread needs to be either a religion bashing extravaganza, or an endless mockery of SJWs.

2: it's only the leftists that have sway in media platforms and realistically policy for over a decade. Meanwhile they don't even let their zeitgeist sink in to gain traction, rather they try to replace people that are against their ideals with fresh immigrants that have zero qualms with them. So point me toweard a leftist that isn't absolutely ideologically opposed to the normative right and then tell me again how little sway they have over main stream media and politics.

Now, when you use 'leftist' here, I assume you are talking about culture, because economically that is an absurd statement. I also assume you mean the same about normative right, but I am not sure. I will say, culturally, I am personally a total prig... I like the term aesthetic conservative, so I don't feel opposed to the normative right, if I am understanding the term the way you mean it; I just don't feel I need to make my personal preferences into laws. Putting the media on blast for their bias is fine by me, but assuming every statement is a one of implicit bias is a total godamn SJW move, and it is morally and intellectually lazy.

Bonus round:

3. Go fuck your self tbh

I applaud your honesty.

[Cid]

Gawker did that son,

Pravda by any other name...

The personification of cultural marxism.

http://gawker.com/that-type-of-girl-des ... 1639772694

I don't even know if that's an insult towards gawker, because this whole cultural marxist thing, like believing its a thing, seems to be the purview of people who associate with actual Nazi fanboys. Seriously you're going to have to come up with new negative references because I hate gawker but I hate it and its ilk. Brietbart, Drudge, Huffpo. Gloriously shitty outlets that revel in their shit.

[Cid]

I still have no idea what cultural marxism is threatening you. Nothing that is traditionally American seems to be threatened, except jobs for hard working people, but that shit seems to be A OK depending on which team you root for.

Is it the gays? Is it the muslims? Is it the hippies? Is it the womens? Is it the blacks? I'd ask if it was the jews, but I'd feel I was actively trolling at that point and I'm saving that for later.

How is our culture being threatened?

The only threat I see to white culture comes from the dirty bottom of it. The racist and proud part of it. The "I deserve a job but fuck those people who want entitlements," part of it that makes the people who think they're John Galt throw up a little in their mouth when they realize they need the stupids to vote for them.

I am definitely liberal, but my disdain for the right is not at good Christian men being patriotic and making tough choices. Its for all of the kkkristians that have "the reason for the season" next to confederate flag bracketed by truck nuts and an NRA sticker. I see no reason to save that culture anymore than I care to save gay pride parades. Neither bothers me, but I don't feel the need to accept them or propound them either. They're both embarrassing, but largely to their own members.

Perhaps I need to be more sensitive to be attuned to the oppressive cultural marxism going on, but to comment on how I was being distracted by political marxism via a law, that law was made because someone felt their culture was threatened. We wouldn't be talking about it if someone didn't make it political. And I'm sure that those legislators thought that since you can't fire Brian for fucking Mike (I'm just screwing with you that's totally legal in a lot of places) they felt they needed a proportional response.

Cultural Marxism just looks like a bunch of infantile primitives who abandon principles when their favorite color isn't used.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Just to return to OP for a moment...

I don't want to live in a society dominated by pussy, identity-whore SJWs, NOR do I wish to live in one under the control of proudly ignorant racist xenophobes.

I most CERTAINLY don't want to live in one that works like a Marxist-Communist system of slavery, NOR do I wish to live under the yoke of MegaCorps with full rights to poison my kids to save a buck.

Either extreme is abhorrent to me, and should be avoided at all cost. Yes, both sides do need each other. More importantly, there are way more than 2 sides to every debate.

[DrYouth]

For instance, is studying the history of the civil war from the perspective of the Confederates 'cultural Marxism?' By all the definitions provided in this thread, it certainly seems to be. They were not the victors, they believe their rights were subsequently violated, et cetera.

This is very well put.

The Confederates are the prime example of an outgroup that held on to it's claim to history.
The left allowed this outgroup to keep it's "dignity" and the confederates have resented them for this "gift" ever since.
This is a perfect example of the hostile dependence paradigm...
The left wanted the confederates to be grateful to them and like them for their mercy....
That was their arrogance.

The right know the folly of this.
They do not want to repeat the mistakes of the left.
They believe in crushing outgroups to spare them the misery that the confederates have lived in as recipients of "mercy" from the left.

Did I get this right Smitty?
For Smitty we are still living the Civil War.

[clubgop]

Gawker did that son,

Pravda by any other name...

The personification of cultural marxism.

http://gawker.com/that-type-of-girl-des ... 1639772694

I don't even know if that's an insult towards gawker, because this whole cultural marxist thing, like believing its a thing, seems to be the purview of people who associate with actual Nazi fanboys. Seriously you're going to have to come up with new negative references because I hate gawker but I hate it and its ilk. Brietbart, Drudge, Huffpo. Gloriously shitty outlets that revel in their shit.

Yes but MSM gives the left side of the shit outlets a megaphone. You knew about Hogan and gawker, but point on the doll where the Brietbart touched you. You can't, you just know they bad cause mommy MSM said so. Cultural marxism putting in work.

[clubgop]

assuming every statement is a one of implicit bias is a total godamn SJW move, and it is morally and intellectually lazy.

In this little statement we have a whole universe of cultural marxism. It is all about weaponising language. Human beings are naturally and genetically predispositioned to be biased that is a fact. Cultural marxism wants to color outside those lines so that fact becomes fascism, Nazi fanboi, or whatever term you and cid want to spit out today. So people fight back, weaponize their own language, come up with the term SJW. You recognize the effectiveness of that weaponising by attempting to use the term against those that would state a biological fact, totally neutering the weaponised language used against you while trying to redeploy it as a cudgel against your enemies. Nice try, but no dice. The cultural marxist have rested on their laurels and when they try to go next level they find a bunch keks teaching the class.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

assuming every statement is a one of implicit bias is a total godamn SJW move, and it is morally and intellectually lazy.

In this little statement we have a whole universe of cultural marxism. It is all about weaponising language. Human beings are naturally and genetically predispositioned to be biased that is a fact. Cultural marxism wants to color outside those lines so that fact becomes fascism, Nazi fanboi, or whatever term you and cid want to spit out today. So people fight back, weaponize their own language, come up with the term SJW. You recognize the effectiveness of that weaponising by attempting to use the term against those that would state a biological fact, totally neutering the weaponised language used against you while trying to redeploy it as a cudgel against your enemies. Nice try, but no dice. The cultural marxist have rested on their laurels and when they try to go next level they find a bunch keks teaching the class.

I would say attacking the motivation for making an argument, instead of the argument, is a stupid and duplicitous thing to do. A tactic pioneered by the left, but really taking root in the right.

Cutting a paragraph down to a part of a sentence, and then making some pedantic attack on that tiny part of the whole statement is also duplicitous.

You're better than that.

[Fife]

For instance, is studying the history of the civil war from the perspective of the Confederates 'cultural Marxism?' By all the definitions provided in this thread, it certainly seems to be. They were not the victors, they believe their rights were subsequently violated, et cetera.

This is very well put.

The Confederates are the prime example of an outgroup held on to it's claim to history.
The left allowed this outgroup to keep it's "dignity" and the confederates have resented them for this "gift" ever since.
This is a perfect example of the hostile dependence paradigm...
The left wanted the confederates to be grateful to them and like them for their mercy....
That was their arrogance.

The right know the folly of this.
They do not want to repeat the mistakes of the left.
They believe in crushing outgroups to spare them the misery that the confederates have lived in as recipients of "mercy" from the left.

Did I get this right Smitty?
For Smitty we are still living the Civil War.

Smits, I'm glad you are here. Do you care to tote the water yet again on American Revolution 2.1?

BTW, the mission of the progressive/Marxist/left is not to seek truth. It is not to promote scientific or skeptical thinking. It is to destroy the West, and the cultural approach to destroying it from within is obvious and manifest. Is that so hard to grasp?

https://pjmedia.com/faith/2016/12/12/cu ... epage=true