Economics: PayDay Loans- Bastards or Black Sheep?

[DBTrek]

Wait a sec ... I didn’t say people shouldn’t be able to voluntarily offer their organs. I just said they shouldn’t be seizable for debt collection.

If a poor father wants to sell a kidney for $45k to put his kid through school, I’m not sure how we can justify telling them “no”.

In the land of legalized abortions, telling someone they don’t own their body is a tough sell.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Wait a sec ... I didn’t say people shouldn’t be able to voluntarily offer their organs. I just said they shouldn’t be seizable for debt collection.

If a poor father wants to sell a kidney for $45k to put his kid through school, I’m not sure how we can justify telling them “no”.

In the land of legalized abortions, telling someone they don’t own their body is a tough sell.

Right, so take the next step. Why couldn't I leverage my kidney into a $250k loan?

[DBTrek]

Right, so take the next step. Why couldn't I leverage my kidney into a $250k loan?

Why would a lender be interested in your kidney? Seems only buyers would want it.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Right, so take the next step. Why couldn't I leverage my kidney into a $250k loan?

Why would a lender be interested in your kidney? Seems only buyers would want it.

As collateral. Same reason the banks seized all those houses in 2008 and left them to rot. Once it's seized, they never touch it again, and demand that the city tear it down.

It's not about recouping value, it's a punitive against bad borrowers.

[DBTrek]

Lenders don’t survive by punishing borrowers. They survive on profit. Your kidney is lousy collateral. They have no immediate buyers and the fees for storing it are astronomical.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Lenders don’t survive by punishing borrowers. They survive on profit. Your kidney is lousy collateral. They have no immediate buyers and the fees for storing it are astronomical.

What happened to 'there is more to life than what is best economically?'

This sounds like the only reason not to use organs as collateral is that it is economically infeasible.

Presumably, a lender could set up connections with people interested in acquiring organs, and once you have the infrastructure for storage and delivery, you can bring those costs down. A savvy, swingin' business dick can always find a way where there is a market.

[Fife]

Right, so take the next step. Why couldn't I leverage my kidney into a $250k loan?

Why would a lender be interested in your kidney? Seems only buyers would want it.

Oh, you could conditionally assign your kidney to some company in that market, and the bank could take a security interest in that assignment.

It's just that the market for (paid for) kidneys isn't legal in the US. If it were, it wouldn't be hard to imagine a financing arrangement, given some pretty high standards for fair dealing and fraud recovery (or in the case of irreparable harm -- like "dude you took my kidney out under false pretenses; now how am I gonna get it back?" -- injunctive relief).

To DB's point just now that lenders don't generally survive by punishing borrowers-- yes, it's self-evident.

What we are discussing is NOT not Merchant of Venice financing.... Shylock was in the game for vengeance, or just 16th century Jew greed, of course. How did it work out for him when he rejected the nicety that the quality of Mercy is not strain'd?

Now, whether the Cash For Kidneys market should be legal; well, that's a whole other question.

[Fife]

Lenders don’t survive by punishing borrowers. They survive on profit. Your kidney is lousy collateral. They have no immediate buyers and the fees for storing it are astronomical.

What happened to 'there is more to life than what is best economically?'

This sounds like the only reason not to use organs as collateral is that it is economically infeasible.

Presumably, a lender could set up connections with people interested in acquiring organs, and once you have the infrastructure for storage and delivery, you can bring those costs down. A savvy, swingin' business dick can always find a way where there is a market.

We can agree that there is human demand (from people RWA to pay cash) for healthy organs ready for transplant, yes?

Well, then I can assure you that there is already a market in place to address that demand, whether a legal market or a black market.

[DBTrek]

What happened to 'there is more to life than what is best economically?'

Nothing happened to it, it’s still true.
In addition, kidneys make lousy collateral.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

What happened to 'there is more to life than what is best economically?'

Nothing happened to it, it’s still true.
In addition, kidneys make lousy collateral.

... because it is too risky, because it is illegal.

Good economic tools for the poor, all regulated up in their bodies, if you ask me.