Unite the Right

[Kazmyr]

Perhaps this is an issue of definitions. Hedonism, I believe, invokes a complete selfishness, with no regard for anyone else - sociopathy.

Precisely for the reason you give below - you'll be punished for it. Not only by the State, which would be a last resort, but your own conscience. The human mind does not like to see itself as an abuser.

My point being, the punishment comes after the act. State punishment, while punitive, is also a deterrent. Nihilism removes the deterrent effect.

Nihilism, by its very nature, precludes any sort of "for all" ideology. Believe what you want, no concern of mine. But as a human, I feel that I have a duty to help maximize the happiness of my fellow man, so I would strongly advocate at least sharing the idea.

That presumes that everyone will react similarly to nihilism. You already exhibit the orientation towards a purpose (this duty, why?), but what of others? Nihilism lets everyone drift about wherever they may, no orientation; no boundaries. Nihilism is already depressing as shit. Giving someone a depressing ideology and telling them to be happy about it... yeah, that's not working out as well as you think it's going to.

Indeed. I have no qualms with anyone believing in any sort of mystical thing. I have a real problem with those that attempt constantly, throughout our history, to impose their belief on others.

My beef is not with God. It's with religion.

Above you said "you have a duty to help maximize the happiness of my fellow man." It's the same idea as someone of a particular faith preaching a religion to convert those who are not of the faith, in an attempt to save them. By bringing them into the religion, they may sacrifice to find ultimate happiness. This isn't to say that religion hasn't ever been used for nefarious ends; happens all the time. Sorting out the genuine benevolent belief from the false, malevolent ones? A bit tougher of a proposition.

[Kazmyr]

An 18 minute video.
That's certainly more useful than posting the relevant 4 seconds.

He wanted context! So I gave him all 18 minutes of it....

[SuburbanFarmer]

It absolutely can be mislived. Pray you don't realize this in your last moments.

I have no doubt that, in my final moments, my mind will be shrieking at the injustice and mourning my lost time and experiences. I've faced death before, and know that feeling well.

The human mind can never accept non-existence. It goes against our most fundamental nature. Yet, we must put thoughts of it aside, and normalize our reality, for daily life to be tolerable.

The fact of so many people dying with regrets indicates you are full of poop on this one.

My point is that EVERYONE dies with regrets - or at least the feeling of regrets. Mother Teresa had regret, shame, terror, and existential dread at the end, don't kid yourself. And, of course, this will depend largely on the circumstances of death - sudden shock, lingering illness, immediate surroundings, etc. No amount of self-righteousness will ever change that.

And moments later, a decaying lump of cells or ashes. What matters then?

If you want to be remembered, you can achieve that for up to a lifetime, and then even that is gone. If you want to have some sort of grand impact, the reigning champ is Genghis Khan, and you've got a hell of a lot of work to catch up to him.

All that you've touched, seen, felt, and done will be gone in the blink of a cosmic eye. Quail in fear, or simply live for Now. Your call, and no business of mine.

[apeman]

The most difficult thing for me here is I was exactly the same as GCF once and was so sure in the exact same positions, and I am just so thankful that I was able to get over myself and open up.

You truly could not have convinced me otherwise either.

[Smitty-48]

Btw, the bolded part? That doesn't match up with the optimistic nihilism from the video. That's anything goes. What you said there is not.
Do whatever feels good is exactly hedonism. You're advocating, not that people take off a security blanket of dogma, but rather put one on: feels good? DO IT. Who gives shit what the effect on everyone else is?

I'm not advocating hedonism, and this entire discussion seems to be derailed by several of you extrapolating that from an objective view of the universe. Nihilism simply means that there's no 'overriding purpose' to life. There is no boogyman in the sky judging you, and you have only yourself to answer to. If you choose to take that off into Candyland, and rape/loot/steal at will, then you'll pay consequences in a society. That's life, and that's your choice. Removing the blinders of dogma does not make you free of reality.

And.. I'm trying not to leap to conclusions here, but are you guys actually advocating that this view should be suppressed for "The Greater Good"? And then pointing at it as a possible cause for totalitarianism?

lol. Told you the churchy Temperance Ladies would be after you. You're not allowed to be hedonist in America. Well, unless you're rich that is.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Perhaps this is an issue of definitions. Hedonism, I believe, invokes a complete selfishness, with no regard for anyone else - sociopathy.

Precisely for the reason you give below - you'll be punished for it. Not only by the State, which would be a last resort, but your own conscience. The human mind does not like to see itself as an abuser.

My point being, the punishment comes after the act. State punishment, while punitive, is also a deterrent. Nihilism removes the deterrent effect.

Nihilists don't have fear of death? Of course they do. As I said, it's a fundamental part of humanity. Fear of pain works, as well.

Consider: Does it "mean more" to be drawn and quartered like William Wallace, having done something for your people, or to have it done because you were falsely accused and sentenced? Does either scenario change the pain endured, or the final result?

Nihilism, by its very nature, precludes any sort of "for all" ideology. Believe what you want, no concern of mine. But as a human, I feel that I have a duty to help maximize the happiness of my fellow man, so I would strongly advocate at least sharing the idea.

That presumes that everyone will react similarly to nihilism. You already exhibit the orientation towards a purpose (this duty, why?), but what of others? Nihilism lets everyone drift about wherever they may, no orientation; no boundaries. Nihilism is already depressing as shit. Giving someone a depressing ideology and telling them to be happy about it... yeah, that's not working out as well as you think it's going to.

Again, what is your proposal? To hide it from the world, and let teenagers figure it out for themselves?



I'm not proposing any sort of ideology for the world, just sharing my personal beliefs. It's important not to feel isolated, when one emerges from dogmatic thinking - trust me on that.

Indeed. I have no qualms with anyone believing in any sort of mystical thing. I have a real problem with those that attempt constantly, throughout our history, to impose their belief on others.

My beef is not with God. It's with religion.

Above you said "you have a duty to help maximize the happiness of my fellow man." It's the same idea as someone of a particular faith preaching a religion to convert those who are not of the faith, in an attempt to save them. By bringing them into the religion, they may sacrifice to find ultimate happiness. This isn't to say that religion hasn't ever been used for nefarious ends; happens all the time. Sorting out the genuine benevolent belief from the false, malevolent ones? A bit tougher of a proposition.

They may do that, or they may waste their fellow man's time and energy on unicorns and deprivation for no purpose. That's a whole lotta karma to gamble with...

[SuburbanFarmer]

The most difficult thing for me here is I was exactly the same as GCF once and was so sure in the exact same positions, and I am just so thankful that I was able to get over myself and open up.

You truly could not have convinced me otherwise either.

You see my view as self-important? Expand on this, please.

[apeman]

The most difficult thing for me here is I was exactly the same as GCF once and was so sure in the exact same positions, and I am just so thankful that I was able to get over myself and open up.

You truly could not have convinced me otherwise either.

You see my view as self-important? Expand on this, please.

The intelligent hyper rational individual who knows better than 1000s of years of culture, religion, lessons, etc.

[SuburbanFarmer]

The most difficult thing for me here is I was exactly the same as GCF once and was so sure in the exact same positions, and I am just so thankful that I was able to get over myself and open up.

You truly could not have convinced me otherwise either.

You see my view as self-important? Expand on this, please.

The intelligent hyper rational individual who knows better than 1000s of years of culture, religion, lessons, etc.

Well, it's not like I came up with the idea of not following my local shaman's rules. Those ancient lessons do dictate the necessity of altruism and duty, though, and I follow them.

[Kazmyr]

Nihilists don't have fear of death? Of course they do. As I said, it's a fundamental part of humanity. Fear of pain works, as well.

Consider: Does it "mean more" to be drawn and quartered like William Wallace, having done something for your people, or to have it done because you were falsely accused and sentenced? Does either scenario change the pain endured, or the final result?

Again, what is your proposal? To hide it from the world, and let teenagers figure it out for themselves?



I'm not proposing any sort of ideology for the world, just sharing my personal beliefs. It's important not to feel isolated, when one emerges from dogmatic thinking - trust me on that.

They may do that, or they may waste their fellow man's time and energy on unicorns and deprivation for no purpose. That's a whole lotta karma to gamble with...

My proposal for addressing nihilism is what we're doing right here, right now. Locking it away, in hopes that no one will find it is folly. Nihilism, out in the open, is how you deal with it. "Yes, this is nihilism." Then you proceed to explain all the pitfalls of nihilism. The more you face nihilism and what results, the better prepared you are to articulate where it can lead someone off the rails.

Go ahead, share away your belief in nihilism. That's fine. For me, I'm glad don't have that particular approach to life anymore. I don't think being 'optimistic' about the futility of life and how 'sky voodoo' is silly is a sustainable personal philosophy and I'll do what I can to explain why.