Minimum Wage just went up to $11.50 in Washington State. The price of milk is $2.68 a Gallon.

[Speaker to Animals]

In the middle class of America, especially among engineers, there is a kind of often unstated virtue in laziness. Engineers especially tend to frown upon just toiling away at something. It's better to write a small bit of code that generates a lot of code, for example, than to just sit there and robotically write repetitive code. If I am managing some new hires, and I see them doing that, I am supposed to stop them and show them how to do it smarter.

This value is opposed to blue collar working class values that favor the amount of physical effort involved. I am not sure if this value is shared outside of STEM, however.

Laziness is often called the first virtue of programming.

http://threevirtues.com/

Wait - so if I replace a lengthy case statement with recursion I'm lazy? WTF?

Well, no, but when you can actually write probably ten times as many lines of code per hour than you actually do, spend most of the day surfing the web or working on homework, only to write code at your actual pace for about three hours after your lunch break...

[SuburbanFarmer]

In the middle class of America, especially among engineers, there is a kind of often unstated virtue in laziness. Engineers especially tend to frown upon just toiling away at something. It's better to write a small bit of code that generates a lot of code, for example, than to just sit there and robotically write repetitive code. If I am managing some new hires, and I see them doing that, I am supposed to stop them and show them how to do it smarter.

This value is opposed to blue collar working class values that favor the amount of physical effort involved. I am not sure if this value is shared outside of STEM, however.

Laziness is often called the first virtue of programming.

http://threevirtues.com/

Wait - so if I replace a lengthy case statement with recursion I'm lazy? WTF?

Well, no, but when you can actually write probably ten times as many lines of code per hour than you actually do, spend most of the day surfing the web or working on homework, only to write code at your actual pace for about three hours after your lunch break...

Better to spend a little time writing great code, than hours hacking at it, and creating more issues.

Do it when your mind is centered, focused. The actual time spent doesn't matter.

[SuburbanFarmer]

In the middle class of America, especially among engineers, there is a kind of often unstated virtue in laziness. Engineers especially tend to frown upon just toiling away at something. It's better to write a small bit of code that generates a lot of code, for example, than to just sit there and robotically write repetitive code. If I am managing some new hires, and I see them doing that, I am supposed to stop them and show them how to do it smarter.

This value is opposed to blue collar working class values that favor the amount of physical effort involved. I am not sure if this value is shared outside of STEM, however.

Laziness is often called the first virtue of programming.

http://threevirtues.com/

Damn.

I remember a fella he was talking about how easy his job was. Said he had to do data input at his job, but instead of doing it manually he wrote a bit of code and all of his job was done in 10 seconds compared to 8 hours. So he'd clock in, run the code, job is done he'd do nothing else the rest of the day. Oh, he certainly look like he was working, but that was his day. He told me, they hired data entry, not a coder. He never told his employer that's what's happening, why would he ever tell his employer, he'd be out of a job then.

That's what we're talking about. He's overqualified for his job, and chooses to work very little for a lower wage. He could be more ambitious, and make more money, but then he'd have to try.

People always respect hard work. But they'll never admire it.

[jediuser598]

That's what we're talking about. He's overqualified for his job, and chooses to work very little for a lower wage. He could be more ambitious, and make more money, but then he'd have to try.

People always respect hard work. But they'll never admire it.

That's fucked up though.

As a person, that would make me feel bad. I couldn't sit on that. I would eventually give it up.

There's something intrinsically good in not only working hard but working smart, in pushing together with a team towards a common goal, and doing it in the best way possible. Getting the best results in the least amount of time. But with how employers are, you'd get fucked. I get it, but that kind of thinking makes me feel like a bad person. That's not virtuous.

[SuburbanFarmer]

That's what we're talking about. He's overqualified for his job, and chooses to work very little for a lower wage. He could be more ambitious, and make more money, but then he'd have to try.

People always respect hard work. But they'll never admire it.

That's fucked up though.

As a person, that would make me feel bad. I couldn't sit on that. I would eventually give it up.

There's something intrinsically good in not only working hard but working smart, in pushing together with a team towards a common goal, and doing it in the best way possible. Getting the best results in the least amount of time. But with how employers are, you'd get fucked. I get it, but that kind of thinking makes me feel like a bad person. That's not virtuous.

And that is exactly why they're able to keep millions of 'hard workers' like yourself at the bottom.

The only way to rise with virtue now, is to specialize your skillset. Make yourself valuable to the labor market. And that will NOT be measured in pounds carried, or nails pounded.

Please tell me you stayed in school. I remember talking to you about this last year.

[Okeefenokee]

I'm not saying respect shouldn't be afforded to folks who are upwardly mobile, but shitting on people who work hard, put in their days? I don't see any sense in that. Hard work is hard work regardless. Worthy of respect.

Are you one of those people who don't regard work that does not require heavy lifting as "easy" work, by any chance? I put value in work ethic, not what the work is. Okee's talking about working smart, and you think that that's in opposition to working "hard". Maybe "work hard" is a term that only applies to physical work in the English language, I don't know. I associate it with a person's work effort. Meaning, I don't see any opposition between working hard and working smart. Nevermind that the process of understanding how to work smart, can also involve hard work.

Who deserves more respect? The woman who is in her 50's, 60's,70's working at a job she hates, but still putting in the time, but she's also working hard and letting no one leave her behind. She's over there leading the pack. Or the 20 year old who is working hard as a paralegal? In a job he loves.

One situation certainly hurts more.

I guess you could say the older woman, on a day to day basis, is lifting more weight, encountering more resistance, but both would be demonstrating solid work ethic which should be applauded, but the paralegal has the better deal, is there any real denying of that? But should that distinction really be made? Why not just respect the work ethic? As the paralegal looks at the woman and the other way around? Just respect the work ethic. But in our current culture? The paralegal gets respect, and the woman does not. That's what bothers me.

Bjorn, I have Okee blocked. I'll display post on his stuff sometimes just to see if he's continuing his belligerency towards me, roll my eyes then continue on about my day. If you notice, all of his posts towards me are always negative, attempting to bait me into responding to his nonsense. Not worth it.

Virtue signalling queer.

[DBTrek]

Let us all pause for a moment and greatly respect those who pick strawberries. That shit is hard work. What paragons of humanity, to live decades on this planet and distinguish themselves by a feat of endurance like that! I mean, how many of us could pick strawberries? Truly inspiring.

[jediuser598]

Let us all pause for a moment and greatly respect those who pick strawberries. That shit is hard work. What paragons of humanity, to live decades on this planet and distinguish themselves by a feat of endurance like that! I mean, how many of us could pick strawberries? Truly inspiring.

It's good, honest work.

You turn your nose up at it?

[SuburbanFarmer]

I'm not saying respect shouldn't be afforded to folks who are upwardly mobile, but shitting on people who work hard, put in their days? I don't see any sense in that. Hard work is hard work regardless. Worthy of respect.

Are you one of those people who don't regard work that does not require heavy lifting as "easy" work, by any chance? I put value in work ethic, not what the work is. Okee's talking about working smart, and you think that that's in opposition to working "hard". Maybe "work hard" is a term that only applies to physical work in the English language, I don't know. I associate it with a person's work effort. Meaning, I don't see any opposition between working hard and working smart. Nevermind that the process of understanding how to work smart, can also involve hard work.

Who deserves more respect? The woman who is in her 50's, 60's,70's working at a job she hates, but still putting in the time, but she's also working hard and letting no one leave her behind. She's over there leading the pack. Or the 20 year old who is working hard as a paralegal? In a job he loves.

One situation certainly hurts more.

I guess you could say the older woman, on a day to day basis, is lifting more weight, encountering more resistance, but both would be demonstrating solid work ethic which should be applauded, but the paralegal has the better deal, is there any real denying of that? But should that distinction really be made? Why not just respect the work ethic? As the paralegal looks at the woman and the other way around? Just respect the work ethic. But in our current culture? The paralegal gets respect, and the woman does not. That's what bothers me.

The woman is certainly working harder, because she failed to make herself more valuable to the labor market.

The paralegal worked smarter, building value early, and can look forward to an easier life.

Which is more 'virtuous'? The paralegal. She has more resources to support her family/way of life, and provides more value to the world.
The older woman is the equivalent of a pack animal. When she finally breaks down, she will be swapped out for a fresh animal. Nobody will think twice about it.

[DBTrek]

Does doing something everyone else, even children, could do qualify people for respect?
I’d say no.

Achieving the same productivity as members of the animal kingdom (even an ox can pull a plow) is not noteworthy.

Persisting at the most basic levels of labor as decades slip by is not respectable either. If you’ve done 50 years of minimum wage labor, you’ve wasted fifty years of potential self improvement.
/shrug

It’s better than not working at all.
That’s about it.