identity politics are destroying the democratic party

[Speaker to Animals]

What I morally recoil from is the notion that there is a 'right' answer to who lives and who dies based on 'value to society.'

What I disagree with is the idea that all of our moral decisions are subconsciously driven by some Darwinian survival rubric.

Good thing you never had to command troops in any capacity, then.

I am comfortable making amoral decisions. If that is all it takes, I would be great at it. Somehow I imagine there is more to it than that though.

No. It's pretty simple -- and it sucks. I think Spielberg captured it well in Saving Private Ryan where the captain couldn't control his nerves towards the end of it.

Personally, I think this saving women first thing (in our age) has more to do with compassion for the husbands and fathers of the women and because blindly following an arbitrary rule, no matter how absurd, absolves us at least superficially of having to grapple with the moral implications of our decisions.

In reality, it no longer makes any rational sense to favor women over men in those types of situations, and the way things are going with declining human capital, it's starting to make more rational sense at least to default in the other direction. It's not that I think we should do that. I certainly don't want to be treated like a princess and I don't doubt none of you would want that either.

But falling off that pedestal, in my opinion, is the driving force of feminism. I think most women realize it's a hollow rationale for anything. "Because I am a woman" doesn't cut it. But most women can't compete with men, so.. something has to give. Right now, it's women trying to sabotage us or impose draconian double standards that put human life at risk in some cases.

[GloryofGreece]

Technological society has disrupted every evolutionary calculus that ever drove us. That is pretty much the whole point.

If we want to start determining a person's value based entirely on what they offer to society, by whatever, essentially arbitrary, metric we decide to calculate that value, then many of us might find we aren't exactly the type society wants around. This is why we have tried to teach ourselves not to think of people like that. It is a lesson that, apparently, needs constant refreshing.

Great point. Somethings people offer aren't utilitarian or measurable yet are still immensely valuable. That should be evident.

[Speaker to Animals]

It's utterly beside the point, but whatever.

[Speaker to Animals]

And that's just the least absurd demographic of all the victim identity blocs. Start delving into black criminality and violence to see how absurd that bloc really is.

All of these identity politics blocs are built on lies. The only one that doesn't need a ton of lies to support it is white men. Which is why the political establishment is like FUCK NO to those guys organizing into a political bloc.

But it's going to happen as a consequence of identity politics in general. You can't have identity politics for everybody except white men. White men will just end up lumped into an implicit voting bloc by default and, when that happens, look out. White men as a group are the ones who pay most of the taxes, provide most of the innovation, etc. Asians are right behind us. Those guys are awesome too. I hope Asian men form up.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Good, it looks like we agree.

Identity politics are stupid, and the best moral position is to view people as individuals with at least some intrinsic value.

[Speaker to Animals]

Good, it looks like we agree.

Identity politics are stupid, and the best moral position is to view people as individuals with at least some intrinsic value.

I wouldn't say identity politics are stupid. Identity politics have been quite effective for minority groups and liberal women in the past few decades, to the great suffering of whites and white men (especially blue collar white men) in particular.

So while it might be favorable for us to not engage in identity politics, our choice comes down to (a) use identity politics or (b) get crushed as a demographic.

The employment of identity politics within a polity is like the initiation of a demographic gunfight. You might loathe gunfights, but if you don't want to get killed, you better shoot back.

Thus, my position is that I will advocate for whites and men to stop engaging in identity politics when all the other demographics agree to stop doing it. I think that's fair. Until then, whites and white men in particular need to start voting as a bloc -- like right now -- and stop playing these equivocation games.

[Speaker to Animals]

I strongly suspect the first identity politic to collapse under its own weight will be feminism. I think a lot of feminists are on the cusp of getting red pilled and they will gravitate over towards the right too. There still will be a huge interest in gender studies, gender rights, and so forth, but I think it will be more equality-based instead of gender supremacist as feminism is, and it will be based more on something like gender realism in which evolutionary psychology and biology become the operating factor that drives the discourse rather than bogus ethical language used by feminists and MRAs.

The real fight is between the racial/cultural demographics. We need to wrap up this war on feminism sooner rather than later. I advocate something more of a truce and a kind of merging based on realism. We can all have our own religious and philosophical views, but let's focus on the scientific reality of sex and differences between the sexes, and from there we can work out what kind of society is best for all involved rather than just advocating for our own sex's interests (or as a few of you dummies often do, argue against your own sex's interests because you think that makes you virtuous somehow).

Once we remove the gender-based identity politics from the table by creating an even playing field for men's rights activists and women's rights activists to actually work together under a commonly-accepted paradigm (science), then the problem collapses down to only racial demographics and our combined white demographic becomes legion.

We could consolidate from there too with East Asians and Indians, in my opinion. We could essentially collapse it further down to the higher-functioning demographics versus the lower-functioning demographics. That's pretty much where it ends, I think, because you simply are not going to have much in common with those other groups. At all.

[TheReal_ND]

Good, it looks like we agree.

Identity politics are stupid, and the best moral position is to view people as individuals with at least some intrinsic value.

Indeed. One intrinsic value would be how willing you are to stick up for your own people or conversely, sell them down the river to virtue signal for people that don't give a shit about them.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Good, it looks like we agree.

Identity politics are stupid, and the best moral position is to view people as individuals with at least some intrinsic value.

Indeed. One intrinsic value would be how willing you are to stick up for your own people or conversely, sell them down the river to virtue signal for people that don't give a shit about them.

When 'my own people' come up with a workable policy to restrict labor fluidity without establishing a police state, and stop running around pretending to fascists for the shock-jockery of it all, we can talk turkey.

[TheReal_ND]

Good, it looks like we agree.

Identity politics are stupid, and the best moral position is to view people as individuals with at least some intrinsic value.

Indeed. One intrinsic value would be how willing you are to stick up for your own people or conversely, sell them down the river to virtue signal for people that don't give a shit about them.

When 'my own people' come up with a workable policy to restrict labor fluidity without establishing a police state, and stop running around pretending to fascists for the shock-jockery of it all, we can talk turkey.

No problem. I'll just sit here and do it your way