Another School Shooting

[DBTrek]

“People are different everywhere in the country, therefore we can’t all be Americans”


Preschool level reasoning and discussions available 24/7 here at MHF.

[Speaker to Animals]

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".

The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition.[2][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man


Also described as: Get a fucking argument, kiddo.

[C-Mag]

The March for Our Lives was not spontaneous. It was carefully planned and coordinated months in advance.



I'm not much into False Flag attack claims, but this one looks sketchy

1. The shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas (MSD) High School occurred on February 14, 2018.
2. A day after the shooting, on February 15, 2018, MSD students formed the group, Never Again MSD.
3. On March 24, 2018, March For Our Lives demonstrations took place in Washington, D.C. (and other cities).
4. Among the organizers of March For Our Lives is Never Again MSD, which had not existed before February 15.
5. The D.C. Metropolitan Police Department received a permit application for March For Our Lives demonstration “several months prior to the actual event”.

How do you build a school shooting protest group before the shooting happens at that school ?

https://freedomoutpost.com/stunning-ema ... take-guns/

[GloryofGreece]

My claim is that the civic nationalist identity propagated since the 1960s is too shallow and vacuous to hold the nation together long term. We already see the disintegration in process.

Yep...

This is think is where Cooper was going in his "Decline of the West" podcast...

These vacuous identities are not holding water.

Empire has always declined... it's the wars of expansion that hold it together... with the military discipline that this involves.

What kills the empire eventually is the fragmentation that becomes evident once the expansion has reached it's zenith...having incompletely digested too many cultures that cannot successfully integrate.

We need an envelope of joint identity to hold the project together and it needs to be more than skin deep.

I forgot the ancient Greek word for "expansion/more" etc. but do you think that deep guttural desire for more land, expansion, possession etc. is a human nature thing or that it nurtured and developed through culture? I'm no "noble savage" dude or Rousseauian in that way. There are however indigenous peoples that value greed and surplus or accumulation less than the West, no?

[de officiis]

The March for Our Lives was not spontaneous. It was carefully planned and coordinated months in advance.



I'm not much into False Flag attack claims, but this one looks sketchy

1. The shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas (MSD) High School occurred on February 14, 2018.
2. A day after the shooting, on February 15, 2018, MSD students formed the group, Never Again MSD.
3. On March 24, 2018, March For Our Lives demonstrations took place in Washington, D.C. (and other cities).
4. Among the organizers of March For Our Lives is Never Again MSD, which had not existed before February 15.
5. The D.C. Metropolitan Police Department received a permit application for March For Our Lives demonstration “several months prior to the actual event”.

How do you build a school shooting protest group before the shooting happens at that school ?

https://freedomoutpost.com/stunning-ema ... take-guns/

I’m speculating, but it might be that the permit was initially issued to a different group organized to demonstrate in response to an earlier shooting, which was then morphed into a protest of the Stoneman shooting.

[DrYouth]

I forgot the ancient Greek word for "expansion/more" etc. but do you think that deep guttural desire for more land, expansion, possession etc. is a human nature thing or that it nurtured and developed through culture? I'm no "noble savage" dude or Rousseauian in that way. There are however indigenous peoples that value greed and surplus or accumulation less than the West, no?

Indiginous peoples have fought mercilessly for one another for territory through time immemorial, committing routine slaughters and enslavement or subjugation of one anothers peoples.
The Aztec and Inca empires were empires like any other... The Aztec perhaps more brutal than most.
The West did not invent empire.

[GloryofGreece]

I forgot the ancient Greek word for "expansion/more" etc. but do you think that deep guttural desire for more land, expansion, possession etc. is a human nature thing or that it nurtured and developed through culture? I'm no "noble savage" dude or Rousseauian in that way. There are however indigenous peoples that value greed and surplus or accumulation less than the West, no?

Indiginous peoples have fought mercilessly for one another for territory through time immemorial, committing routine slaughters and enslavement or subjugation of one anothers peoples.
The Aztec and Inca empires were empires like any other... The Aztec perhaps more brutal than most.
The West did not invent empire.

Didn't say they invented "empire". I asked do you think "greed/expansion" is more expressed in Western culture than indigenous cultures?

[Speaker to Animals]

I forgot the ancient Greek word for "expansion/more" etc. but do you think that deep guttural desire for more land, expansion, possession etc. is a human nature thing or that it nurtured and developed through culture? I'm no "noble savage" dude or Rousseauian in that way. There are however indigenous peoples that value greed and surplus or accumulation less than the West, no?

Indiginous peoples have fought mercilessly for one another for territory through time immemorial, committing routine slaughters and enslavement or subjugation of one anothers peoples.
The Aztec and Inca empires were empires like any other... The Aztec perhaps more brutal than most.
The West did not invent empire.

Didn't say they invented "empire". I asked do you think "greed/expansion" is more expressed in Western culture than indigenous cultures?

Definitely not.

Consider Islam, or the Mongol Empire. Consider the endless wars in Mesoamerica, or the Incan conquest of the Andes and beyond. We just seem to be superior at state violence.

[DrYouth]

Didn't say they invented "empire". I asked do you think "greed/expansion" is more expressed in Western culture than indigenous cultures?

I agree with STA...

Empires have always operated on the drive for expansion.
As Dan Carlin kept coming back to in his hardcore history episodes... waves of expansion seem to have repeatedly emanated from the Mongol steppes and the Germanic/Nordic north... threatening more settled peoples in the more fertile areas.

The west was merely the most successful at expansion... because of their greater ability to communicate and organize at long distances... rather than any difference in the underlying "greed".

[GloryofGreece]

Didn't say they invented "empire". I asked do you think "greed/expansion" is more expressed in Western culture than indigenous cultures?

I agree with STA...

Empires have always operated on the drive for expansion.
As Dan Carlin kept coming back to in his hardcore history episodes... waves of expansion seem to have repeatedly emanated from the Mongol steppes and the Germanic/Nordic north... threatening more settled peoples in the more fertile areas.

The west was merely the most successful at expansion... because of their greater ability to communicate and organize at long distances... rather than any difference in the underlying "greed".

Ok, to clarify I do think the West was basically "more efficient" at empire building in the past 500 years. I do think most "civilized" peoples want more and I do even believe in general there is an inherent selfishness in us all more or less. But I also think their is a "mutual cooperation" gene for lack of a better word as well as the "competition" gene. Some people are instinctively more cooperative some are more competitive. Also, society has carrots and sticks for both temperaments. Depending on the society you can see these things played out to varying degrees of focus. For example, the native society known as the Kwakiutl had this "Potlatch" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potlatch tradition vs. hording and piling up resources. And various tribes like the Algonquin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algonquian_peoples
had very different ideas and concepts about "property" and resources. To me it seems like they were more communal than nation states/empires. And there is a specificity to the Protestant "work ethic" and private property and the rise of capitalism that others have pointed out helped expand this nation. Those ideas are lacking in various tribal societies as far as at least some historians and anthropologist are concerned.