Russia! Russia!! Russia!!!

[Penner]

Trump played by the rules and won. All this other shit is CYA from Obama to your momma.

They all hopped on the Hillary train in 2014, undercut Biden and Bernie, tried to run out the clock instead of pressing the flesh and had bad metrics.

None of that should surprise considering how the leader of that Shit show, the gullible Podesta, was to give out PW.

The point is that you said this:

The American people got what they wanted, no Hillary Clinton.

If we are using the popular vote to gauge what the American people wanted, and not what you wanted, then they didn't get it. Thus, we the American people lost because apparently, the majority wanted Clinton, not Trump.

[Smitty-48]

The Russians need to go big or go home in Ukraine, if they're going to fight this war and take the heat for it, they need to get more than Crimea out of it, they need those warm water shipyards and gas turbine plant in Mykoliav too.

1st Guards Tank Army is back, now put it to work, all the way the Dniepr, Ivan, if you're gonna go, go all the way, getter done while the Trumpster is giving you the green light.

[ssu]

We do this exact same shit. If you think it ended in Iran you don't have as good an understanding of US history as I thought you did.

Well, Kermit Roosevelt isn't the CIA chief in the Middle East anymore and you aren't in control as you used to be. No "Operation Ajax" now.

Hell, what are we doing in Syria besides arming an insurgency against its native government because it's "in our national interest".

What you are doing there is failing. Turkey and Russia are deciding things there on their own without even you been in the talks. And the US Syria operation is a total wreck. One of those epic failures with red lines and huges sums wasted in a totally botched operation.

I think Putin is a rational actor and can be dealt with. Are we ever going to let anyone get the edge on us? I certainly hope not. This shit is the biggest shell game in the world.

Just remember that Putin is a rational actor that has as his objective to wreck your alliance. Go forward just remembering that. If you think appeasement is the way here, then go for the third time for the "reboot" of the relations, to normalize the relations, lift the sanctions and OK the annexation of Crimea. And oh, move those US troops out of NATO countries, that would be a "nice" gesture for the Kremlin. Let bygones be bygones. It's worked so fucking well for you the last two times.

[Smitty-48]

The Russians are not Communists, the World Socialist Revolution is no longer in play, and the Russians ain't the Soviets, in terms of overruning Western Europe by force of arms, so technically, the entire basis of America submitting to NATO, is no longer in effect, and that's what it was, the Americans didn't create NATO, they submitted to it, NATO was a British-Canadian invention, which we talked the Americans into joining, but the reasons the Americans submitted to that, have all gone away, and seems like at least half the American population, is simply figuring that out.

I'm OG Cold Warrior from the Trace, and even I don't give a fuck about NATO anymore, the Soviet Union is no more, the Warsaw Pact is no more, the entire basis of NATO is no more, it's a Cold War legacy project zombie, which no longer serves the purposes for which it was created, and has in fact become a burden rather than a boon in the process.

If Vladimir Putin is capable of wrecking NATO, then that just shows that NATO has long outlived its usefullness, because what does he have to wreck it with? "Active Measures"? Please, the day the KGB can take NATO down by "Active Measures", is the day NATO should be put out to pasture for being useless as tits on a slug.

If NATO is so fucking weak, that it can't even handle a little internet trolling from the Kremlin, then fuck NATO, let it burn.

[ssu]

If Vladimir Putin is capable of wrecking NATO, then that just shows that NATO has long outlived its usefullness, because what does he have to wreck it with? "Active Measures"? Please, the day the KGB can take NATO down by "Active Measures", is the day NATO should be put out to pasture for being useless as tits on a slug.

If NATO is so fucking weak, that it can't even handle a little internet trolling from the Kremlin, then fuck NATO, let it burn.

If the Americans don't fucking care about their own alliance, then it's over, naturally. Can go to the dustbin of history, just like CENTO or SEATO. It's a bit sad, because many believe in it.

And have to say Vlad is one of the most capable leaders of our time. That's for sure.

[Smitty-48]

It's not their alliance, ssu, that's the Big Myth, it was never their allaince, the Americans didn't create it, the Americans didn't even embrace it at first, we had to ram NATO down their throats, but that was for the Soviet threat, it was never intended to be a permanent alliance for all time, NATO had a purpose, which was entirely about the Warsaw Pact, then when the Warsaw Pact went away, NATO simply became an entrenched bureaucratic interest, which refused to stand down when it was no longer required, and instead became a zombie Cold War legacy project, walking the earth as the undead, to no good purpose, just let it die, ssu, the war is over, the trace is gone, and nobody gives a fuck about the "menace" of the not Communists anymore Russians.

Are they Communists? No. Can they overrun Western Europe by force of arms? No. OK then, mission accomplished, all call signs, stand down.

[Okeefenokee]

Remember, Obama used NATO to topple the government in Libya unilaterally.

It's not a Russian defense group as much as it's a plan B if the UN won't go along.

[Smitty-48]

I don't buy into Mr. Ivan's narrative that NATO is poised to attack him, since obviously the panty waists who run NATO have no stomach for a shooting war with a near peer, none the less, a trillion dollar a year military alliance with no purpose, rummaging about for reasons to justify its exitence, can be a very dangerous thing, without it ever taking another step towards Moscow.

[Smitty-48]

It's not a Russian defense group as much as it's a plan B if the UN won't go along.

Indeed, and the only thing worse than the UN with no teeth, is a UN with teeth, when I worked under the UN, I used to gripe that things would be different if NATO were running the show, then NATO took over, and I was like, oh, never mind, same stupid shit down the rabbit hole, except now it's dropping ordinance with abandon.

You bitch about the trickle coming out of the UN, but then you get what you wished for, except now it's a firehose and you can't turn it off.

NATO is a blunt instrument, built to annihilate six Soviet Guards Tank Army's over the Trace, taking that firehouse and going around the world with it trying to do brain surgery, is a very bad idea.

[Speaker to Animals]

Am I the only one amazed how effectively the democrats can make the Russians look like the good guys?