How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

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Montegriffo
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Re: How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

Post by Montegriffo » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:03 am

Not that you are going to read it but here is the hospital's statement about the case.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/24/us-doctor ... z4npHdZC5P
Great Ormond Street Hospital has criticised the doctor who claimed to have new evidence over Charlie Gard, saying he had a ‘financial interest’ in the drugs he suggested.

A new legal case was brought after American doctor Michio Hirano said he had new information and that experimental drugs could give the baby a chance of survival.

But today his parents Connie Yates and Chris Gard ended their legal fight after it became clear the new evidence was not what they had hoped.

In a statement this afternoon, Great Ormond Street said they were disappointed when Dr Hirano admitted he had not visited Charlie or read his up-to-date medical information before giving evidence in court.

‘Throughout, his parents’ hopes have been sustained by advice received from overseas,’ the hospital said.

But it is their view that ‘Charlie’s has been an existence devoid of all benefit and pleasure’ since the first court case earlier this year. ‘If Charlie has had a relationship with the world around him since his best interests were determined, it has been one of suffering.’
The European Court of Human Rights had upheld the decision to switch off Charlie’s life support after his parents appealed.

But the decision was revisited following interventions from US President Donald Trump, the Pope and mitochondrial expert Dr Hirano.

Hospital representatives said they hoped ‘those who, like the Professor, have provided the opinions that have so sustained Charlie’s parents, their hopes and thus this protracted litigation with its many consequences, will also find much upon which to reflect.’

In a lengthy statement explaining their position, GOSH said they were ‘optimistic’ when they first heard the doctor speak of new information, but this turned to ‘surprise and disappointment’ when he took the witness box on July 13, before he had even seen Charlie in person.

‘He stated that not only had he not visited the hospital to examine Charlie but in addition, he had not read Charlie’s contemporaneous medical records or viewed Charlie’s brain imaging or read all of the second opinions about Charlie’s condition (obtained from experts all of whom had taken the opportunity to examine him and consider his records) or even read the Judge’s decision made on 11 April.

‘Further, GOSH was concerned to hear the Professor state, for the first time, whilst in the witness box, that he retains a financial interest in some of the NBT (Nucleoside Bypass Therapy) compounds he proposed prescribing for Charlie.

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/24/us-doctor ... z4nrLhdq2I
GOSH is a tertiary referral centre and a centre of research excellence. It celebrates and enthuses about gene therapy and experimental treatment of all types. But it also believes in its patients as people. The hospital strives to work with children and parents to strike a balance of treatment benefits and burdens that combines evidence and compassion.

Where that balance falls ethically in favour of pioneering treatment, GOSH shares each family’s excitement at the journey that follows. GOSH believes that novel therapies are best provided in the context of formal clinical trials. The hospital does not treat its most vulnerable children simply because it can and on no account does it treat them purely because novel treatment furthers GOSH’s research.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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Kazmyr
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Re: How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

Post by Kazmyr » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:12 am

So the takeaway from this case is that... what, the state needs more control over parental decisions because said parents cannot truly know what the best interests of the child are? Forget the long-shot, hail mary treatments for a small chance of improving his condition. Might as well just flood the kid with Morphine at this point.

:snooty:
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Zlaxer
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Re: How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

Post by Zlaxer » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:20 am

What hasn't been emphasized yet is that the Gards were going to seek treatment from board certified medical professionals - it's not like they were going to take Charlie to the back alley......Nanny State won't let you seek second opinions, unless they agree with Nanny state - that's fucked up.

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The Conservative
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Re: How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

Post by The Conservative » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:22 am

Montegriffo wrote:Not that you are going to read it but here is the hospital's statement about the case.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/24/us-doctor ... z4npHdZC5P
Great Ormond Street Hospital has criticised the doctor who claimed to have new evidence over Charlie Gard, saying he had a ‘financial interest’ in the drugs he suggested.

A new legal case was brought after American doctor Michio Hirano said he had new information and that experimental drugs could give the baby a chance of survival.

But today his parents Connie Yates and Chris Gard ended their legal fight after it became clear the new evidence was not what they had hoped.

In a statement this afternoon, Great Ormond Street said they were disappointed when Dr Hirano admitted he had not visited Charlie or read his up-to-date medical information before giving evidence in court.

‘Throughout, his parents’ hopes have been sustained by advice received from overseas,’ the hospital said.

But it is their view that ‘Charlie’s has been an existence devoid of all benefit and pleasure’ since the first court case earlier this year. ‘If Charlie has had a relationship with the world around him since his best interests were determined, it has been one of suffering.’
The European Court of Human Rights had upheld the decision to switch off Charlie’s life support after his parents appealed.

But the decision was revisited following interventions from US President Donald Trump, the Pope and mitochondrial expert Dr Hirano.

Hospital representatives said they hoped ‘those who, like the Professor, have provided the opinions that have so sustained Charlie’s parents, their hopes and thus this protracted litigation with its many consequences, will also find much upon which to reflect.’

In a lengthy statement explaining their position, GOSH said they were ‘optimistic’ when they first heard the doctor speak of new information, but this turned to ‘surprise and disappointment’ when he took the witness box on July 13, before he had even seen Charlie in person.

‘He stated that not only had he not visited the hospital to examine Charlie but in addition, he had not read Charlie’s contemporaneous medical records or viewed Charlie’s brain imaging or read all of the second opinions about Charlie’s condition (obtained from experts all of whom had taken the opportunity to examine him and consider his records) or even read the Judge’s decision made on 11 April.

‘Further, GOSH was concerned to hear the Professor state, for the first time, whilst in the witness box, that he retains a financial interest in some of the NBT (Nucleoside Bypass Therapy) compounds he proposed prescribing for Charlie.

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/24/us-doctor ... z4nrLhdq2I
GOSH is a tertiary referral centre and a centre of research excellence. It celebrates and enthuses about gene therapy and experimental treatment of all types. But it also believes in its patients as people. The hospital strives to work with children and parents to strike a balance of treatment benefits and burdens that combines evidence and compassion.

Where that balance falls ethically in favour of pioneering treatment, GOSH shares each family’s excitement at the journey that follows. GOSH believes that novel therapies are best provided in the context of formal clinical trials. The hospital does not treat its most vulnerable children simply because it can and on no account does it treat them purely because novel treatment furthers GOSH’s research.
So in other words, the doctor had a stake in the treatment? How else do you expect things to happen?

Let me give you a hint, either on the battlefield or because someone has put money towards a procedure to see if it has any benefit.

Ever wonder why Viagra came around? It wasn't for men only originally... it was to help lower bloodpressure, instead it became used for something else.
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Zlaxer
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Re: How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

Post by Zlaxer » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:24 am

This really is about the Nanny state usurping parental rights as to seeking professional medical counseling from outside the Nanny State.....if the treatment Charlie went against medical practice, then the MDs would be de-borded (or whatever the equivalent of disbarred is).....

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Re: How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

Post by Okeefenokee » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:55 am

Zlaxer wrote:This really is about the Nanny state usurping parental rights as to seeking professional medical counseling from outside the Nanny State.....if the treatment Charlie went against medical practice, then the MDs would be de-borded (or whatever the equivalent of disbarred is).....
This is why they won't go near this issue with a ten foot pole. It's just an endless refrain of specifics to this one case, when it's been clear from the start that the objection to this is in its founding premise that the state suborns the parents in the matters of the child. They already accept that, and only want to talk about the merits of its outcome. They have no intent of addressing the moral, social, and practical pitfalls of the premise that is being challenged.

You tell them it isn't right for Big Brother to get between parents and children, and they deflect with a story about how the children discovered their parents were traitors.

but, Napoleon MUST control the loyalty of the pups. How else could he turn them against Snowball once they're grown?
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SuburbanFarmer
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Re: How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

Post by SuburbanFarmer » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:49 am

Nobody wants to hand the state control over their kids dude. But since we have to compromise somewhat in order to fix healthcare, these extreme cases are on the table. It still beats subsidizing insurance companies to shit all over us.
SJWs are a natural consequence of corporatism.

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The Conservative
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Re: How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

Post by The Conservative » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:51 am

GrumpyCatFace wrote:Nobody wants to hand the state control over their kids dude. But since we have to compromise somewhat in order to fix healthcare, these extreme cases are on the table. It still beats subsidizing insurance companies to shit all over us.
I must really be talking to a wall... I already stated how to have both worlds to be happy, without the need of government control. Cripes, seriously do you read at all the stuff I post?
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Kazmyr
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Re: How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

Post by Kazmyr » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:09 am

GrumpyCatFace wrote:Nobody wants to hand the state control over their kids dude. But since we have to compromise somewhat in order to fix healthcare, these extreme cases are on the table. It still beats subsidizing insurance companies to shit all over us.
How does ceding parental authority to the state fix healthcare?
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SuburbanFarmer
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Re: How's that Obamacare Repeal Working Out For You?

Post by SuburbanFarmer » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:47 am

Kazmyr wrote:
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Nobody wants to hand the state control over their kids dude. But since we have to compromise somewhat in order to fix healthcare, these extreme cases are on the table. It still beats subsidizing insurance companies to shit all over us.
How does ceding parental authority to the state fix healthcare?
Ceding some authority over extreme cases appears to be a byproduct of single-payer.

Your healthcare is already at the mercy of the insurance companies. This would just shift that overlordship to the government.
SJWs are a natural consequence of corporatism.

Formerly GrumpyCatFace

https://youtu.be/CYbT8-rSqo0