Meanwhile in Iraq & Syria

[Smitty-48]

You know a lot about nuclear capabilities. Explain why from a budgetary perspective it makes sense to have massive European military bases and so forth for a stationary place to launch a nuke, when we have submarines which are harder to track and hit that could just as easily launch a nuke?

The submarines are easier to track now, mobile land based systems have surpassed them in terms of difficulty to find fix and destroy, but to the larger question, it is the Americans whom insist on; Full Spectrum Dominance, that is the American policy, that is not the NATO policy.

Full Spectrum Dominance includes the capability to strike without warning from point blank, and since the US pulled out of ABM 72', the capability to shoot ballistic missiles down, in all phases, boost, mid-course, and terminal.

[heydaralon]

You know a lot about nuclear capabilities. Explain why from a budgetary perspective it makes sense to have massive European military bases and so forth for a stationary place to launch a nuke, when we have submarines which are harder to track and hit that could just as easily launch a nuke?

The submarines are easier to track now, mobile land based systems have surpassed them in terms of difficulty to find fix and destroy, but to the alrger question, it is the Americans whom insist on; Full Spectrum Dominance, that is the American policy, that is not the NATO policy.

Full Spectrum Dominance includes the capability to strike without warning from point blank, and since the US pulled out of ABM 72', the capability to shoot ballistic missiles down, in all phases, boost, mid-course, and terminal.

I've got to figure that the European governments and military men in NATO are smarter and better informed than I am. If what you are saying is true, and Russia has no intention of expanding, why on Earth were they crying bloody murder when Trump was discussing NATO?

[TheReal_ND]

Why the fuck is Montenegro in now? Wtf is that shit?

[skankhunt42]

Historically, I believe you are wrong, because much of Poland has been a part of Russia for centuries until Versailles, and Hitler and Stalin ruthlessly divided Poland between themselves in 1939, not to mention the fact that Poland was a part of the USSR for half the 20th century. Poland had a brief flicker after World War 1, and again after the late 80's. It remains to be seen if that light will stay on.

You're looking at the wrong history, hydrogen bombs rendered World War Two obsolete a long time ago, if there is a war between the Russians and NATO, Europe is the sideshow, the main event is the CONUS, the real frontline, is not to your east, it's to the north, straight over the pole.

There's no point in the Russians fighting a conventional war in Europe to defend themselves from the United States, if push comes to shove, they're going straight to the nuclear option, via the arctic, never bothering to stop in Poland at all.

They have two options, nuclear surprise attack or nuclear blackmail, they can't win a conventional war in Europe, they wouldn't even try, it's not going to be NATO dragging the Americans to the brink, it's going to be the other way round, 1962 all over again.

This! This! This! This!

[Smitty-48]

I've got to figure that the European governments and military men in NATO are smarter and better informed than I am. If what you are saying is true, and Russia has no intention of expanding, why on Earth were they crying bloody murder when Trump was discussing NATO?

Who is crying bloody murder? That's fake news, the Europeans actually want America out, Brussels wants to replace NATO with EUFOR, the only people screaming bloody murder, are American Neocons, John McCain & Co. Anybody in Europe who is saying they want the Americans in, is just being put up to that by the entrenched interests in Washington.

Only the Hegemon's have a foreign policy, anything the Auxilliaries are saying, is just ventriloquism from the Hegemon, there's a hand from Washington up their butts, making their mouths move to the American tune.

[heydaralon]

Why the fuck is Montenegro in now? Wtf is that shit?

Fuck you, Montenegro is a wonderful and welcome new edition to NATO, and I resent the fact that you are suggesting that they aren't as strategically important as Poland and Eastern Europe! They are giving almost $500,000 a year to be in this club. That could pay fuel costs for rotating an aircraft carrier 45 degrees towards the Balkans.

[heydaralon]

I've got to figure that the European governments and military men in NATO are smarter and better informed than I am. If what you are saying is true, and Russia has no intention of expanding, why on Earth were they crying bloody murder when Trump was discussing NATO?

Who is crying bloody murder? That's fake news, the Europeans actually want America out, Brussels wants to replace NATO with EUFOR, the only people screaming bloody murder, are American Neocons, John McCain & Co. Anybody in Europe who is saying they want the Americans in, is just being put up to that by the entrenched interests in Washington.

Only the Hegemon's have a foreign policy, anything the Auxilliaries are saying, is just ventriloquism from the Hegemon, there's a hand from Washington up their butts, making their mouths move to the American tune.

Do you have a source? I read several articles awhile back about Polish ambassadors crying and saying that an American security guarantee is "worthless."

[TheReal_ND]

Why the fuck is Montenegro in now? Wtf is that shit?

Fuck you, Montenegro is a wonderful and welcome new edition to NATO, and I resent the fact that you are suggesting that they aren't as strategically important as Poland and Eastern Europe! They are giving almost $500,000 a year to be in this club. That could pay fuel costs for rotating an aircraft carrier 45 degrees towards the Balkans.

I'm not saying we need Poland either just quit calling Eastern Europe trash. They'd probably conquer the world right now if they weren't so poor.

[Smitty-48]

This may be the stupidest American scapegoating bubble fantasy of them all, that somehow it is the NATO countries who are forcing America to be the Imperial Hegemon in a forward strike position against the Russian recalcitrants in Europe, I mean, I know you're Americans, but even you can't be that fuckin' naive.

Nobody forces America to do shit, America does the forcing, the rest of us have to dance to your tune.

Your lack of isolationism problem, does not emanate from Brussels, I mean, get real, you fuckwits.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Smitty, based on your last statement, can you provide a justification for NATO in the post Cold War world, other than imperial hubris?

For the United States? The primary strategic interest is maintaining control of the no man's land between Russia's nuclear arsenal and America's, just because you pullled out of and/or disolved NATO, that wouldn't spare the United States from being Russia's primary target in the event of a theatre war, the United States would get dragged in no matter what, so there's nothing gained for America by surrendering control of the situation to the Europeans, you couldn't escape the vortex in the event of, the real purpose of NATO is to prevent the vortex from ever coming about in the first place.

The United States is the main target in NATO, it's not NATO putting the United States in the gunsights, the Russians don't actually have a beef with Poland, Poland is not the exitential threat to Russia, the Russians are not targeting the United States because the United States is in Europe, the Russians are targeting Europe for being the proxy of the United States.

Historically, I believe you are wrong, because much of Poland has been a part of Russia for centuries until Versailles, and Hitler and Stalin ruthlessly divided Poland between themselves in 1939, not to mention the fact that Poland was a part of the USSR for half the 20th century. Poland had a brief flicker after World War 1, and again after the late 80's. It remains to be seen if that light will stay on.

ummmm no. Poland was a superpower until 1772, and the Sejm partition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland#Post-war_communism

It wasn't really 'ruled by Russia' until after WW2, in the Soviet era.